Pradyumna: “Vidura, while on pilgrimage, left his body at Prabhāsa. Because he was absorbed in thought of Lord Kṛṣṇa, he was received by the denizens of Pitṛloka, where he returned to his original post.” [SB 1.15.49]
Prabhupāda: This Vidura was Yamarāja. So he was cursed by one muni to go down and take birth in śūdra family. Yamarāja was very exalted post, but still… Yamarāja means the superintendent of death. There is Pitṛloka, Yamaloka, different planets. And where each planet is situated, how many miles, yojana… The Sanskrit is called yojana. Yojana means eight miles. So how many yojana is one planet situated from another planet, that is all described in the Bhāgavata, Fifth Canto.
So there is a Pitṛloka, Yamaloka. Just like the moon planet, we are trying to go there, but there are different lokas, planets, and you can go, not by the sputnik, by force. No. You’ll have to qualify yourself. Just like to come to your country, to take the permanent visa, I had to qualify in so many ways, the immigration department, not by force. Even in this planet, you cannot enter any country without being permitted. How you can enter other planets? Simply by force? No, that is not possible. You have to qualify yourself. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. A person can go to the planets of the demigods, devān. There are many demigods: Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, Vāyu. Brahmaloka, Prajāpatiloka, Siddhaloka—they are in the higher planetary systems. This is… We are now situated in the middle, Bhūrloka. It is called Bhūrloka. Above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Above that, Svarloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Satyaloka, like that, ūrdhvaloka. They are higher planetary… Then middle. And then lower planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. If you develop sattva-guṇa, the quality of goodness, then according to your degree of goodness, you get promoted to the higher planets. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. If you are in the passion modes, then you stay here in this middle planetary system. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Those who are in the most abominable condition of life, adho gacchanti, they go down. Not only the down planetary system, but even to the animal kingdom, the beasts, birds, trees, plants, aquatics. You have to go.
After all, you have to change this body. Change… This is… Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. As we are changing this body from childhood, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood… This is practical. You are not the same body as you had your body in the womb of your mother. That body is gone. Now daily changing; every moment we are changing body. Advancing age means I am changing body, you are changing body. So it is very easy to understood that we are changing our body. But I know, you know, every one of us, that “I had such and such body.” You remember that you had a child’s body. You were playing like that. When you see another child, you say, “Oh, I was also a child like him, and I was doing like this.” But where is that body? That is gone. Now you have got another body. This example is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. So as you are changing body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13], similarly, after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the logic, and any sane man can understand.
So we have become so rascal that we do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. Actually, I am…Presently I can understand that “I had such and such body; now I have transmigrated to this body.” How I have done, that is not known to you or me. That is called acintya. Perceptive. Just like the child is changing body, and you saw one child on the lap of his mother. So after few years, you come. You cannot recognize the same child who has grown up: “Oh.” The mother says that “This is such and such.” “Oh, you have become so grown up.” So things are taken imperceptibly. That is going on by the subtle laws of nature. It is a great science, but there is no discussion of this science in any university of the whole world. And they are advancement of knowledge. They are claiming advancement of knowledge. What knowledge you have got? You do not know what you are, and you are advancement in knowledge.
Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī, who was prime minister of Nawab Hussein Shah, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his first proposition was that, grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni: “My dear Sir, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, some neighboring people, they call me, I am a very learned scholar.” Grāmya-vyavahāre. “In ordinary behavior, they call me, I am very learned scholar. But I do not know what I am, I am such a scholar.” This is the submission. This is called submission. Everyone is puffed up, that “I know. I know everything. So there is no need of going to a guru.” This is the method to approach a guru, spiritual master: surrender, that “I know so many rubbish things which are useless. Now kindly teach me.” This is called submission. Just like Arjuna said, śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. When there was argument between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, and when the matter was not solved, then Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa, “My dear Kṛṣṇa, now we are talking as friends. No more friendly talking. I accept You as my spiritual master. Kindly teach me what is my duty.” That is Bhagavad-gītā.
So one has to learn. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the Vedic injunction, that what is the value of life? How it is changing? How we are transmigrating from one body to another? What I am? I am this body or beyond, something? These things are to be inquired. That is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This inquiry should be made. So in this Kali-yuga, without any knowledge, without any inquiry, without any guru, without any book, everyone is God. That’s all. This is going on, fool’s paradise. So this will not help. Here, about the Vidura… He also…
viduro ‘pi parityajya
prabhāse deham ātmanaḥ
pitṛbhiḥ sva-kṣayaṁ yayau
He… I was talking about Vidura. Vidura was Yamarāja. So a saintly person was brought before Yamarāja for punishment. So when the saintly person inquired from Yamarāja, that “I am… I don’t remember that I have committed in my life any sin. Why I have been brought here for judgment?” So Yamarāja said that “You do not remember. In your childhood you pricked one ant with a needle through the rectum, and she died. Therefore you have to be punished.” Just see. In childhood, in ignorance, because he committed some sin, he has to be punished. And we are willingly, against the principle of religion that “Thou shalt not kill,” we have opened so many thousands of slaughterhouse, giving a nonsense theory the the animal has no soul. Just see the fun. And this is going on. And we want to be in peace. Therefore your Senate house has issued some injunction order, that on the 30th of April, 1974, there will be a mass prayer. Who will explain it? Just explain. What is that?
Karandhara: Well, one senator made a resolution that on April 30th there would be a national observance of prayer because of the state of the nation’s moral decay.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So you might have seen that. It is good that at least the managers of the state, they are coming to their sense, but this sentiment will not help. One must be serious. The sinful activities, as we have forwarded or manifested, that no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. But I think they will not agree to this the state. And what prayer will do? No. God is not so foolish that you go on doing all nonsense, and simply by prayer you become out of it, punishment. No. That is not possible. Therefore I am speaking of the Viduras.
So that saintly person accepted to be punished by Yamarāja, but he also cursed him, that “Because in my innocence I committed some sin, you are punishing me in this way, so I also curse you that next life you will have to become a śūdra. Because you have no intelligence of a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya.” So Vidura became a śūdra. Śūdra means he was born by a king, he was begotten by king, but his mother was śūdra, maidservant. That was the system, that when a king is married, the father of the princess also gives so many girls to go with the princess, as maidservant. And sometimes the maidservants also gave birth. So they are called dāsī-putra. Such son could not claim to the throne, but were provided, dāsī-putra. So Vidura’s history was like that. He was a dāsī-putra, brother, a step-brother, not exactly step-brother, but brother, of Mahārāja Dhṛtarāṣṭra. But he was a very saintly person, because formerly, in the previous life, he was Yamarāja. So he was not ordinary man. So he cultivated spiritual consciousness. Now, after leaving this body, he returned again, pitṛbhiḥ sva-kṣayaṁ yayau. He again returned to his original post. Temporary, he got the life of a śūdra; again he returned back by his pious activities. Similarly, there are many narrations in the Purāṇas. Sometimes Indra, the king of heaven, he was also cursed by Bṛhaspati to become a hog in this planet.
So there are many incidences by cursing, by accident. Even by accident, you have to accept a body which you do not desire. So that is, just like Bharata Mahārāja. Bharata Mahārāja, he was the king of this planet, and at the age of twenty-four years, very young age, young wife, young children, kingdom of the whole planet, he left everything. He went to the forest for cultivating spiritual advancement. But one day he saw that a deer was drinking water in front. In the meantime there was a roaring of a lion, and the deer was pregnant. She gave birth to a calf and she fled away. So Bharata Mahārāja saw the little calf is dying. He picked up and kept and it became…, it began to growing. So he had some little affection, just like we have got affection for cubs of dog and others. So one day, that little calf did not return in the evening, and he went to search out on the hill, and accidentally he fell down, and next life he became a deer. Yes.
This is the science. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find. “At the time of death, as you are thinking, you will be carried to such body.” This is the example. Just like this Bharata Mahārāja, such an exalted person, he had to become a deer. But because he was spiritually advanced, although he became a deer, he was living with the saintly persons. Where saintly persons were sitting, he was sitting down there. He was eating the flowers and leaves which the saintly persons left after worship. In this way, he had to wait for one life, and the next life, he became a son of a nice brāhmaṇa. So because he was remembering this different birth, he became very grave and silent. He was not talking with anyone. So it is very dangerous to contaminate. So he was known as Jaḍa Bharata. This story you will find the the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
So just try to understand that death is there. You have to die. You may declare yourself, “I am very dependent. I don’t care for God or anyone,” but God will not excuse you. You have to die. You will see God in the form of death. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he is seeing. Prahlāda says, “My dear father, why don’t you accept God?” “Who is God? I don’t care for your God. You rascal boy, you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.” So God… The atheist may declare like that, “There is no God,” but he will see God as death. That is compulsory. There is no excuse. So at the time of death, the mentality which you have created by practice, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitāḥ [Bg. 8.6], will act. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is simply educating people so that at the time of death one can remember Kṛṣṇa. That’s all. This simple… And if he is fortunate enough to do this, immediately he is transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka. Immediately, within a second. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9].
So why we should waste our time thinking so many nonsense things? Why not think of Kṛṣṇa, how beautiful He is, standing here with Rādhārāṇī? If we come here and take this impression, and simply think of Him, our life is perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is the difficulty and what is the loss? If you gain such big profit simply by thinking of Kṛṣṇa, why should you lose this opportunity, this human form of life? A cat cannot be educated. A dog cannot be educated. If I teach a dog, “My dear dog, please think of Kṛṣṇa,” he is animal; it is not possible. But a human being, although at the present moment he is like a dog, but he can be trained to become a human being and think of Kṛṣṇa. That is possible. So we should take the opportunity. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. This life is gotten after many, many births. We do not know. We have forgotten. This is the opportunity. And here is the proof, śāstra, that kṛṣṇāveśena tac-cittaḥ.
How Yamarāja, Vidura, returned to his place? Now, kṛṣṇāveśena tac-cittaḥ. He was fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought. Not only Kṛṣṇa, you can go to Kṛṣṇaloka or any loka you desire. The yogis, they also can do that. Yoga practice. But that is not possible in this age. The so-called yoga practice going on are simply bluff. Real yoga practice means one becomes so perfect that he will not die natural death. He will die when he likes. He will not be forced to die. When he thinks, “Now I am fully prepared. Now I shall leave this planet. I shall go to such and such planet, such and such loka,” he will be immediately transferred. That is yoga practice. So that practice is not possible. Therefore still in India you will find many yogis are there. They come to Kumbha-melā—that will be held in the month of February—from distant places. And you will see, just like young men, but some of them are three hundred years old, four hundred years old. Still. How they are preparing themself? They think, a yogi thinks that “Now I am not prepared. There may be mistake. I am not prepared to enter such and such planet.” So that concession is given there by the yogic practice. Just like you appear for an examination. Unless you are fully prepared, you are certain that “I must pass,” you do not appear. Similarly, the yogis, unless one thinks that “I am fully competent to enter such and such planet,” he does not give up this body.
But that practice may be successful for one or two persons. Generally, it is not successful. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, bhakti-yoga system, is so easy and perfect that if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, and if you become perfect as to think of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death, then immediately you are transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka. Or any loka you like. Not only Kṛṣṇaloka, any loka. If you desire to go to heavenly planet, to Brahmā planet, to Satyaloka, Maharloka, Janaloka… Many thousands and millions of planets are there. Or even if you want to go beyond this material world, to the Vaikuṇṭha planet, Kṛṣṇa planet, Goloka planet, you can go there. This is the science. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. People… Just like they are very much anxious to go to the moon planet. And what is this nonsense moon planet? It is also a material planet. Actually if you go moon planet, you can live for ten thousands of years. That is the statement in the śāstra. But after ten thousand of years you have to die. So if you go to any planet, within this material world, the four material, I mean to say, problems, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, will follow you. You may live in one planet. Just like we are allowed to live on this planet utmost hundred years, not more than that. Or the ant is allowed to live for six hours. Or another fly is allowed one moment. There are different varieties of… Or Brahmā is allowed to live for millions of years. So according to the different types of body, we are allowed to live under certain duration of life. But nobody can be immortal here. That is not possible. That is possible when you transfer yourself to the spiritual world, Vaikuṇṭhaloka. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. That is possible. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching, educating people in such a way not only he goes to the spiritual world, but he goes to the highest planet of the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana, where Kṛṣṇa is there. Where Kṛṣṇa is there.
So viduro ‘pi parityajya prabhāse deham ātmanaḥ. Deha, parityajya deham. So we give up this body. I am not lost; I am transferred to another body. We give up this body. Just like I give up one kind of dress; I take another kind of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. These are all stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. As we change our dress, similarly, we change our body. And this way, transmigration is going on. So this human life should be engaged in such knowledge and cultivation of knowledge, that after leaving this body, we are not going to accept another material body, but we be transferred directly to the spiritual world, and we are situated in one the spiritual planets, as I desire. There are many millions of spiritual planets also. So far we are concerned, we are concentrating our mind to be transferred to the spiritual world, in the highest topmost planet there, Kṛṣṇa-loka, Goloka.
lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
This is the description of the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet in the Brahma-saṁhitā. The first description is, “That planet is made of cintāmaṇi gems.” Cintāmaṇi gem means… If you get by chance imitation cintāmaṇi gem, you can turn iron into gold. That is cintāmaṇi gem. So these things are there. One may believe or not believe, but we believe because we believe in the śāstra. So we have no botheration.
So there is Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, Kṛṣṇaloka, and Vaikuṇṭhaloka. There are… As there are different grades of lokas, planets… Here also, in this material world, there is one planet which is called Siddhaloka. Siddhaloka means there the inhabitants (are) automatically perfect in all yogic practice. Yogic practice means… If you become perfect in yogic practice, you can fly in the air without any instrument. Aṇimā laghimā prāpti īśitā vaśitā. There are eight kinds of siddhi. You are sitting here. If you want such and such thing from London, you can get immediately. This is called siddhi, prāpti. You can become the smaller than the smallest. You can be packed up in a box. We have seen it. And you’ll come out. In Bose’s circus, Calcutta, in our childhood, we saw this yogic practice. A man was tied up, hands and legs, put into a bag. The bag was sealed up, again put into a box. The box was locked and sealed. And the man again came out. We have seen. So yogic practice is such… Yes. Prāpti siddhi aṇimā. You can become the smaller… There was a saintly person in Benares, Trailanga Baba. So he was practiced to sit naked in the public road. So government objected that “You cannot sit naked here.” So he did not speak. So he was arrested and taken to the custody and put into the jail. He again came out. He again came out.
So these are yogic, I mean to say, perfection. Anything you like… The most perfect yogi can create even one planet. They become so powerful. But still, that is all material power. That is not spiritual power. The real spiritual power is that you give up this body, you give up this material world, go to the spiritual world, go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your perfection, and that is very easily obtained by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness attitude.
Thank you very much. (end)