Pradyumna: (leads chanting, etc.) “I do not know what is beneficial for me and what is detrimental. Nonetheless, in ordinary dealings people consider me a learned scholar, and I am also thinking of myself as such.”

Prabhupāda:

āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāna!
grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni

So in India, still, a brāhmaṇa is called paṇḍita, paṇḍitaji. Just like you know our Prime Minister was Paṇḍita Jawaharlal Nehru. He happened to be a Sārasvata brāhmaṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he also a Sārasvata brāhmaṇa by caste. But he has placed himself:

nīca jāti nīca-saṅgī patita adhāma
kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi’ goṅāinu janama

He could understand that “These people call me paṇḍita.” Paṇḍita means one who knows everything. The ultimate paṇḍita is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Paṇḍita means he sees every living entity on the equal level. That is real paṇḍita. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
[Bg. 5.18]

He’s really paṇḍita. That is spiritually. And material paṇḍita, that is also mentioned by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, his moral instruction. He gives description of a paṇḍita:

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

He never said that anyone who has passed his M.A. degree or Ph.D. degree, he is paṇḍita. No. The test of paṇḍita is here, from moral instruction, that anyone who sees all other woman except his wife as mother, he is paṇḍita. Just see. This is the test. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu and para-dravyeṣu, other’s property as garbage in the street, nobody touches. And ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, and treat everyone as his own self. If anyone has learned these three things, then he is paṇḍita. And spiritually, when one sees that all living entities, may be in different types of bodies, he is spirit soul, part and parcel of God, then he is paṇḍita.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
[Bg. 18.54]

So these are Vedic instructions, and Sanātana Gosvāmī, although he was a minister in Muhammadan government, Nawab Hussain Shah’s, but in touch with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he has come to his knowledge that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita: “Actually, I am not paṇḍita, but in village, in ordinary common sense, because I happen to be a brāhmaṇa, they call me paṇḍita. I also accept as paṇḍita. But my real position is that I am such a paṇḍita, such a learned man, that I do not know what is good for me. This is my position.” He is submitting to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his guru. Why guru is necessary? Tad vijñānārtham. When we are perplexed that “I do not know what is my actually goal of life, what is benefit here for me…” Just like Arjuna did. When he was talking with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms, two friends… But when he saw that the actual solution is not coming, then he submitted himself to Kṛṣṇa, that “Kṛṣṇa, now we are not friends. We are friends, but treat me as Your disciple.” Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. So “Make me paṇḍita. I am talking all foolishly. I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight and I am denying it. I know that I am deviating from my duties. So how it has happened? What is the cause? So kindly, śiṣyas te, I am submitting myself before You as Your student. Śādhi māṁ prapannam, I am surrendering.”

So one has to learn the philosophy of life from the person superior, spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Do not remain puffed-up, that “I am all-learned, I know everything.” That is false. One has to submit. In order to know the solution of life, we have to submit to the proper spiritual master. That is essential. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. This is Vedic injunction. This abhigacchet, this word is used when it is meant “must.” There is no escape. We have seen big, big personalities… Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu; He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He accepted Īśvara Purī as His guru. Kṛṣṇa, He also accepted His guru as Sāndīpani Muni. Lord Rāmacandra, He accepted His guru as Vasiṣṭha. So it is (not) necessary, Kṛṣṇa or Rāma. They are Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are the supreme instructor, full of knowledge, everything. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya. There is nothing short, but still, to show us example, They accepted guru. That is essential. So here Sanātana Gosvāmī, he is also born in a very well-to-do brāhmaṇa family. He was well-situated as minister in charge of the government of Hussain Shah. So everything was quite all right, and still, he thought himself as nica jati.

nīca jāti nīca-saṅgī patita adhāma
kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi’ goṅāinu janama

If we remain puffed-up, that “I am born in such and such family. I am educated such and such, and I am posted in such and such post, so now my life is successful,” that is false. Life is successful when we understand that… Here it is said, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. When we understand what is the goal of life, then life is successful. Not the temporary position, “I am getting good salary, I am very nicely posted, I have got good family,” and so on, so on. No. One must know the goal of life.

The goal of life is that… We are fallen in this material world somehow or other. As Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, anādi karma-phale pori’ bhavārṇava-jale. Now when a man is fallen in the ocean or in the water, he’s asking help, you cannot say that “How did you fall? What was the cause?” That we shall discuss later on. First of all, save him. So that is the immediately necessity. There is no… Sometimes we are questioned that “How a living entity fallen in this material world?” Yes, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27]. Icchā-dveṣa. Actually, we are servants of God. That is our real position. But we sometimes become envious, that “Why shall I become servant of God? This is slave mentality.” Sometimes we are accused, the Vaiṣṇavas are, of slave mentality because they want to serve God. And the Māyāvādīs, they think that “We are so exalted that I am as good as God. I am God.” That is their position. But actually, nobody is God here. Everyone is servant. He’s simply falsely thinking that he’s God, he’s master, he’s this or that. You have got very nice example in the life of Mr. Nixon. He was thinking that he’s everything: “I am the President.” But now what is his position, you can understand.

So similarly everyone…, nobody is master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. The master is there, that is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We living entities, we are eternally servant of God. Kṛṣṇa means God. One who attracts everyone, that is Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by everyone.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
[Bs. 5.1]

Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. These are the Vedic evidences. So actually nobody can be master; everyone is servant. Either we are servant of God or we are servant of dog. That’s all. Nobody can be master. If anyone has no master, then he keeps a pet dog to become his servant. That is nature, we can see. One is servant of his wife, one is servant of his pet or government service or this service. Nobody can claim that “I am the master.” That is not possible. That is also temporary. So actually this is the position of all living entities. Everyone is servant. But in the material sense, he is servant of māyā, servant of senses. Servant of māyā means servant of senses. And spiritual life means instead of becoming servant of māyā or servant of senses, we become the servant of Kṛṣṇa or God. That is the position. Servant we shall remain. We have to change the position. And if we become servant of God, then we become happy, and if we remain servant of dog or māyā, then we remain unhappy. This is the position. We have to change the position. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. One intelligent brāhmaṇa, he’s offering, “My Lord, I have become servant of so many senses, but neither the senses are satisfied, neither I am satisfied. This is the result of my service. Therefore now I have got my intelligence that I want to become Your servant.” This is intelligence. So I have experienced that I became a servant of my family, servant of my society, servant of my country, and so on, so on, but nobody, neither my so-called master was satisfied, neither I was satisfied. We see practical examples, there are many examples. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he dedicated his life for the service of the country. Nobody can doubt about his service, but what is the result? His master killed him. He worked for his country, he took country as his master, and he worked so hard, and his countrymen killed him. We should take lesson from this that you cannot satisfy in this material world by becoming servant of your family or community, society, nation. No. It is not possible. You can satisfy very easily Kṛṣṇa by little service. By little service. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.

So this is intelligence, how to become a servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. That means mukti. Mukti does not mean you’ll get four hands and eight heads. No. Mukti means, as it is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. That is mukti. Sva-rūpeṇa, legally, constitutionally, I am servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Now I have become servant of dog and māyā. So if I give up this service and again become servant of God, that is mukti. That is mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. We are trying to become… Here māyā means “which is not.” Ma-ya. We are every one of us, we are thinking, “I am master.” “I am the monarch of all I survey.” Here is a poetry. Everyone is thinking. I made my plan, I make my survey, and I become king. But that is māyā. You cannot become. You are already servant of māyā.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Everyone is under the clutches of these material laws. You cannot violate even an inch. And still the rascal, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, by false prestige, he’s thinking that “I am the master.” I was asking this morning that what is this independence meaning? Actually, where is independence? This independence, has it meaning? If you are completely under the rules and regulations of the material nature, what is the meaning of this independence? So those who are paṇḍita, they do not take it as independence. They do not take it. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī said, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni. “I do not know what is independence, I am dancing like dog, independence.” Therefore he says, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: “How independence I can get, that I do not know.” Real independence is, as Kṛṣṇa puts in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. One who is intelligent, he sees that “My real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, birth, death, old age and disease.”So when we get free from these four problems, that is real independence. Otherwise, there is no independence. I may dance with independence, but any moment I shall have to leave my country, my society, my friends, my family, any moment, “Get out immediately. No, no independence.” That is my position. So that is intelligence.

So in order to know all these problems of life… Just like Arjuna submitted, and any one has to submit. One has to… Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is teaching us by his personal behavior how to approach the bona fide spiritual master and submit before him and putting himself praṇipā, blank. Not that “I know something, and what my spiritual master can teach? I know everything. There is no need of spiritual master.” No. This will spoil our life. The Vedic injunction is that you must have not a so-called guru but… That is also given definition.

tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta
jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam
śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ
brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam
[SB 11.3.21]

That is the symptoms of guru. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, because we are discussing Caitanya-caritāmṛta, He said that you become, all of you, become guru. He said. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission. He said,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra
[Cc. Ādi 9.41]

This is Indian mission. Para-upakāra. Not exploit others—to give something. That is Indian mission, that he has to give something. He has nothing to take. He has to give something. And what is that? That Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Even if you cannot deliver the whole world or very expansive area, at least, wherever you are, you just deliver them. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa. “You become a guru by My order.” So one may say that “I have no qualification. How can I become a guru or how can I deliver these fallen persons?” So Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, “Don’t be disappointed.”

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa
yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]

Bas. Simply as messenger, as peon, you simply carry the messages of Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Then you become guru. Then you become guru. It is not difficult.

So it is the duty of every Indian not to forget their culture, but bring that culture, pure, wherever you are living and behave yourself to that culture and teach others. That is Indian mission.

Thank you very much. [break] What is that question?

Vipina: Mr. Deyani, you have any questions you would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Mr. Deyani: Well, I just have one thing here, you stated about Gandhi, and we respect that he was really a great leader of us, but stated one point in your lecture, this thing, that Gandhi, mostly, was a servant of the country, but in India, during that period, I didn’t see other religious people or the great leaders of India fighting for the country, and they…, he’s the one…

Prabhupāda: That is admitted. Why you are bringing that question? I mean to say that Gandhi gave the best service to you, but your country is so ungrateful that he killed him. That is my point. So the point is that the best service you can give, but you cannot satisfy everyone. That is material.

Mr. Deyani: No, but my question, sir, was that at some point you have to be the servant of the God, you will have to be a servant of your family or the country or something to serve.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I’m already explaining, that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] wherever you are, you deliver them. That is service. That is service. Wherever you are. Either you are in the family or in the community or in the country or anywhere, you simply give them service, deliver them. Without service, how you can deliver them? And you haven’t got to discover anything or make research. What is already there, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, you teach them, that’s all. He’ll be delivered. You’ll be delivered, he’ll be delivered. It is not at all difficult. Not that I have to manufacture some transcendental means. No. The already instruction is there, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Then you deliver yourself, you deliver others also. That is the mission. So what we are doing? We are not discovering anything. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That’s all. Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We are teaching all over the world the same thing, that “Here is Kṛṣṇa. You always think of Him, you just offer your obeisances, you just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, worship.” So we are teaching. So there is no discovery. It is already there. So that we are carrying simply. Yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. We don’t interpret. There is no need of interpretation; then there is no authority of Bhagavad-gītā. If I am a third-class man, if I interpret Bhagavad-gītā, then Bhagavad-gītā has no authority. Bhagavad-gītā should be preached as it is. Then you become guru, you can deliver others. This is the process. (indistinct) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when we go preaching, people do not want to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes they actually…

Prabhupāda: So if they want to take, then where is the question of preaching? Because they do not want to take, you have to preach. Otherwise, where is the necessity of preaching? You have to prepare yourself in such a way that nobody is dying for your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you have to convince him that your life is spoiled without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your capacity. They are under the clutches of māyā. They are thinking… [break]

Women: …convinced that they have some revelation or some experience that is assuring them of eternal life. So they are not very open to hear about Kṛṣṇa, and they…

Prabhupāda: If they are not open to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then don’t waste your time. The simple thing. There are four things. For a preacher, there are four things:

īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā
yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ

When in the lower stage of devotional service, he cannot become preacher. When he’s in a little upper, second stage, he can become preacher. So preacher has to see four things. First of all God, īśvara, and tad-adhīneṣu, and those who are devotees. God, His devotees, and bāliśa, innocent. He does not know anything about… So three: God, devotee, and the innocent. And dviṣat, envious, atheist class. He has to see four things, and he has to deal with four persons differently. With God, īśvare prema: how to advance my love for God, these dealings. Prema-maitrī, and to the devotees, we have to make friendship with them. Prema-maitrī. And to the innocent, we have to preach, kṛpā: “Oh, here is an innocent person. He does not know; he’s eager to learn.” There teaching is required. Teaching, you cannot teach God or you cannot teach God’s devotees. But you can teach the innocent. And those who are dviṣat, atheist, upekṣā, don’t go there, save yourself. These are the four things. So when one is not open to hear, then don’t bother yourself. That requires very strong preacher to convince the atheist class, provided he is reasonable also. If he’s stubborn, obstinate, then it is also very difficult. But preaching is meant, innocent, that one who is actually sincere but he does not know what is God, what is my relationship with God, there is necessity of preaching. Not to the envious or those who are already advanced, or to God. This is the… Hmm. Bālīya. (indistinct)

Indian man: Prabhupāda, you are giving a very simple process, which is… I can confirm by (indistinct) …it is not (indistinct) Indians coming? Why? They are exposed to Kṛṣṇa from their birth; still they are not interested. Nobody wants to listen.

Prabhupāda: Because they have become bara-sab. Especially in the foreign countries, they become bara-sab. So that is the misfortune of India. They are giving up their culture and being misguided. So if they actually feel that they must maintain their own culture, then it is not difficult. It is the duty of every Indian, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra
[Cc. Ādi 9.41]

If that mentality is developed, that “In India we were born, we have got the greatest culture, recognized by all the world. So I must make my life successful by taking this culture and distribute it to the whole world,” that is real Indian culture. If… They are thinking that they are poverty-stricken. Poverty-stricken because they have given their own culture; therefore poverty-stricken. Otherwise, there is no question of poverty-stricken. So anyway this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s message, that every Indian should take advantage of the great culture, Vedic culture, and make his life successful, and after acquiring mature knowledge he should distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s…

Indian man: (indistinct) How can we (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: By preaching. If you preach, then you’ll meet with so many obstacles, and you have to prepare yourself how to meet the obstacles. Then you become strong preacher. Resistance. There is no difficulty, but if there is difficulty, atheist class of men, and it is very difficult, so take innocent, those who are actually eager to know. Everyone should be. That is the human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is human civilization. Everyone should be inquisitive to know about the Absolute Truth, Brahman, but education is different nowadays. People are interested with hammer, how to play on hammer, that’s all, technology. There is no question of Brahman. Let Brahman go to hell, now take out the hammer. That Russian emblem? Hammer? And scythe? That’s all. Yes?

Indian man: Prabhupāda, the basic confusion is that the Māyāvādīs take Bhagavad-gītā, they can recite the same Sanskrit words and interpret it in their way and convince someone that the ultimate Brahman is impersonal and the (indistinct) Brahman, Kṛṣṇa is only a technique.

Prabhupāda: That means they misinterpret and they misguide. So people should be intelligent enough that they are impersonalists but Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa, the person, He is teaching. Where is the impersonalist? But nobody has any common sense even that Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi bhūtānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. This aham is person, so how He can be imperson? And He’s talking personally with Arjuna. So how He is imperson? Can the air talk with you? Air is imperson. Sky is imperson. Can he talk with you? What do you think? No, sometimes talks. (laughter) So we should have common sense, that where is the question of… And Kṛṣṇa says in the Second Chapter that “My dear Arjuna, both you, Me and all these soldiers and kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall continue to exist in the future.” So three things: first person, second person and third person. I am first person, you are second person and all others third person. So they existed individually in the past, they are existing now, and they will continue to exist like that. Then where is imperson? There are three things, three different phases, past, present and future. In all the times, if they are individual, where is imperson? Rather, Kṛṣṇa has condemned, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām abuddhayaḥ [Bg. 7.24]. Those who are rascals, they think avyaktam, impersonal. Now He has become person. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām. Mām means individual person. Abuddhayaḥ: he has no intelligence. So how He can be imperson? So we have to take the words of Bhagavad-gītā and then we understand. Why we should be misled by these so-called interpreters?

Indian man: They say that if you develop pure love of Kṛṣṇa, then you’ll see only Kṛṣṇa. Your own personality is…

Prabhupāda: But anyway, but Kṛṣṇa, if you think of Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa person, He’s not imperson.

Indian man: No, but they…, they say that has happened.

Prabhupāda: They say that if you think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is a person. So you have to begin with person.

Indian man: But they also say one can go directly to Brahman.

Prabhupāda: Never says, Kṛṣṇa never says in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man: This is my basic confusion.

Prabhupāda: Confusion… How you should be confused? Where is Kṛṣṇa says? The basic (indistinct) is in person? Kṛṣṇa’s teaching personally. Where is the imperson? Why you should be misled unless you are also one of them. Kṛṣṇa is always person. He’s always speaking aham. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Person. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Mattaḥ. This, ahaṁ-śabdaḥ, is used. So they misinterpret just to mislead people; therefore whole India has become godless. This is the misfortune of India. On account of these impersonalists, Māyāvādīs, India is now godless. Very difficult position. So don’t be misled by these rascals. Take real Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then you’ll be benefited. That’s all. (end)

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