Satsvarupa: We always say that the best way to water the tree is from the root, but he says that the way that nature actually waters is from the top.
Prabhupada: So wherefrom the top water comes?
Svarupa Damodara: By evaporation of the ocean.
Prabhupada: And who kept the ocean? You go on.
Svarupa Damodara: By nature.
Prabhupada: Then you come to somebody. That is foolishness. Then nature is not ultimate. Krsna is the ultimate. Because you cannot see Krsna, therefore you say, “Nature.”
Svarupa Damodara: Krsna says, “Nature is under My control.”
Svarupa Damodara: It is just like an equilibrium, Srila Prabhupada. In science it is called equilibrium, means this on and off…
Prabhupada: It is called cakra. What is that? In Bhagavad-gita it is said, brahma-cakra, brahma-cakra. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. That is realization, that in every action there is brahman. The beginning, by eating food grains, you become strong. The animals become strong. Then, when you become strong, you perform yajna, and from yajna, there is cloud, and from cloud, there is rain, and from rain, there is food grains. This is the cakra.
Svarupa Damodara: Cycle.
Prabhupada: Cycle, yes.
Svarupa Damodara: That is the symptom of material nature.
Prabhupada: Yes. So this yajna means to satisfy the Lord. Yajnarthe karma. So when you miss this yajna, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless then the whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing… There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajna is yajnarthe karmano ‘nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajna, for Visnu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajnas are not possible. Therefore yajnaih sankirtana-prayaih. Sankirtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that “This simple yajna, you take it. Chant Hare Krsna mantra. All problems will be solved,” they will not believe. They will not take it. They are so misfortunate. Sastra says, yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah [SB 11.5.32]. Su-medhasah. Those who have got good brain, they take up this yajna process. Su-medhasah. And another word is alpa-medhasah, less brain substance. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. Antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam [Bg. 7.23]. They are doing all other things, but not yajna. Therefore alpa-medhasam: their brain substance is small. And here is su-medhasah. Yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah [SB 11.5.32]. That is the sign of merit: You do something which will produce good result. And if you, cats and dogs, if you simply jump over, what you will do result? That Lilavati Munshi of Bombay, she is the wife of a big man, K. Munshi. So she was asking, “Swamiji, how you made like this?” Everyone is surprised because nobody has done like this. I said that “Because I have taken the proper method, therefore it is done so nicely.” The method must be right. It may be simple, but it must be right method.
Yasomatinandana: She is Gujarati, Lilavati Munshi?
Prabhupada: Ah yes.
Yasomatinandana: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Prabhupada: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, yes. She invited me this time.
Yasomatinandana: She is writer, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes. She is very educated. Now, her husband made very great attempt for publishing book, but there is no sufficient customer. Now the press is going to be sold, and nobody customer. That is letter-setting press. Now it is obsolete. So they were perplexed. She wanted that I shall purchase. And what shall I do with this press? Letter setting is now abolished. That is not good job now. There must be litho press or, what is called, offset. Yes.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, if… Since Krsna is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaisnava should worship Ganapati?
Prabhupada: Krsna worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Krsna. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Krsna’s service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Krsna. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Krsna will be satisfied. Krsna will be satisfied that “My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right.” That is… (laughter) So Ganapati is also devotee. So Ganapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopis, they worshiped Goddess Durga, Katyayani. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that Mother Katyayani, give us the opportunity to have Krsna as our husband.” The aim is Krsna. Generally, they go to worship Devi Durga for asking material benefit. Dhanam dehi rupam dehi yaso dehi, the things which we want in material… But the gopis, they do not go for any material things. For Krsna. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Ganapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, “Please give us Krsna.” Then it is correct.
Gurukrpa: When we were just traveling this last time and collecting, Srila Prabhupada, everyday we were offering some incense to Ganesa, and this prayer in the Brahma-samhita, yat-pada-pallava…
Prabhupada: Pallava-yugam vinidhaya kumbha…
Gurukrpa: We were saying this, saying, “Give us facility to collect nice laksmi to use to build the temple in Vrndavana.”
Yasodanandana: To build the temple for Krsna and Balarama in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is good. Whatever possible facility is available from any person, we beg for it for Krsna’s service, not for our personal benefit. [break] …they forget Krsna. They forget Krsna. When they go to worship some other demigod, they forget Krsna, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah [Bg. 7.20], because they have got so strong material desires that they forget Krsna. That is harmful. Antavat tu phalam tesam [Bg. 7.23]. They get some benefit out of the demigod, but that will not stay. Alpavat, er, antavat. Antavat tu phalam tesam. But if you take Krsna, then it is not antavat, it will go on increasing. If you take to Krsna consciousness, it will never end. It will increase. Anandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. The ocean does not increase, but Krsna consciousness is such a great ocean that it increases only. Anandambudhi-vardhanam.
Candanacarya: Is it not better just to say, “Krsna, whatever You decide. Whatever You give me, that I will accept.” Like Kunti.
Prabhupada: Why shall I take from Krsna? You should give.
Candanacarya: No, I mean. Instead of praying to demigods to give me something, saying, “Whatever you decide Krsna.”
Prabhupada: Oh yes. No. A devotee never prays to Krsna. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Krsna. They know that “Krsna will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty.” Tat te ‘nukampam susamiksamanah [SB 10.14.8]. When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, It is Krsna’s wish that I should suffer like like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure.” Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, “It is better for me.” Therefore agrees, “Yes sir. You go on with your knife.” So when you are surrendered to Krsna, and Krsna says that “I shall give you protection,” so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Krsna. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nama harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. [break]
Candanacarya: One time you said that Krsna consciousness is not difficult, but to remain determined, that is difficult. Determination is difficult.
Prabhupada: That determination comes by tapasya. Therefore we have got rules and regulation. If you follow the rules and regulation, then you will be determined. Otherwise, you will be victim of maya. The rules and regulation is there just to keep you fixed up in your determination. But if you don’t follow, then you fall down. Just like physician says, “You don’t take this along with medicine. You take this.” That is rules and regulation. If you follow, then you do not become victim of disease again. If you don’t follow, then you… What the physician will do?
Candanacarya: But it also requires determination to follow the tapasya.
Prabhupada: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that “In the name of God,” “In the name of Bible.” So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor. [break]
Yasodanandana: …you mentioned that the vaisyas, they are considered to be the capitalists and the sudras, they are considered to be the Communist. And you mentioned that eventually the communists will take over the capitalists. So how long do you think that will happen?
Prabhupada: What’s the use? Why shall I think like that? Let them go to hell, and let us go back to home, back to Godhead. Why shall I waste our time? We can advise them, “Do this. You will be happy.” If they do not take, then we don’t bother anymore. We are not social welfare worker or political worker. We are worker for Krsna. [break] …in this world that people are suffering for want of Krsna consciousness. Let us try to make them Krsna conscious. That is our only interest. Otherwise we have no interest in this material world. Let them do their own duty and suffer or enjoy. Just like Krsna says, samo ‘ham sarva-bhutesu [Bg. 9.29]. Samah. Samata. We are not social worker or political worker. We are Krsna worker. So we give advice to them that “You become Krsna conscious and all problems will be solved.” That is our duty; and to advise him, to convince him, to give him all facilities. Still, if he does not take, then we are not going to see how long he will suffer, how he will stop. Let them do their own business. Just like Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] “Give up all nonsense engagement. Just become My devotee,” we say like that. But if somebody does not give, give up, also not, then Krsna also does not interfere. Let him suffer. [break] …how long one suffers. He can stop his suffering immediately, but if he does not take the medicine, then what can be done? Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. If Krsna withdraws all his sinful activities, then where is the question of suffering? But he will not do. Now, because he is not surrendered soul to Krsna, so he is suffering from time immemorial, and nobody can say how long he will suffer. He will go on suffering. It cannot stop. Therefore Krsna says, mudha: “Rascal.” Na mam prapadyante mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. He does not know, by simply surrendering to Krsna, everything will be nice. That he does not know. And if you advise, he will not accept. matir na krsne paratah svato va. That is explained by Prahlada Maharaja, that “These rascals who have got this idea that ‘By adjustment, we shall be happy in this material world,’ they will never understand what is Krsna consciousness. They will never understand because their aim is…” That picture we gave in Back to Godhead, anchor? Yes. Their anchor is to remain here and enjoy. That is their main disease. They do not… Just like the Russian astronaut has gone so high, he was seeing, “Where is Moscow?” The anchor is there in the Moscow. Therefore he has to come down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho ‘nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. So everyone wants to keep this anchor of this material attachment. They say that “Yes, I am ready to accept Krsna consciousness, provided Krsna gives us so many material…” Just like in Germany. So many women went to pray in the Second World War, “Oh, my husband may come back, my father may come back.” But nobody came back. And all of them became atheists. You see? They take Krsna, or God, as their servant, not to become servant of Krsna, that “I prayed so much, ‘Krsna, God, give us our daily bread.’ And He did not give. Therefore give it up.”
Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, what is the Vedic explanation of the working principle of the brain, how our brain is working.
Prabhupada: Brain is working, because you living entity, soul, is there. Just like I am typing, and he is typing. I have got the latest mechanical, improved typist, and he has got old, bygone age typist, similarly, according to our karma, capacity, Krsna gives us facility. So brain is that facility. Krsna gives us. Not that… So far the brain substance is concerned, a dog’s brain and your Professor Einstein’s brain is the same. His brain, same. But because Professor Einstein is advanced in knowledge, he is working differently. Otherwise, when Einstein, the soul is off from the body, and the dog is off from the body, you will see the brain, equally the same. So this, your scientists, they do not know.
Svarupa Damodara: They say that there are about nine billion cells. They are called neurons.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body’s machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature’s gift. Not that “This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class.” All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese ‘rjuna tisthati: [Bg. 18.61] “Isvara, Krsna, is situated in everyone’s heart.” Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani mayaya: [Bg. 18.61] “He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy.” But that is under the direction of Krsna. Krsna has asked the material energy “Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That’s all. Give him a…” yantrarudhani mayaya. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; “All right, give it.” That is going on. He wants this facility. Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Krsna has given us brain to manufacture. That’s all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Krsna says, “You give up all this nonsense proposal.” But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire… That is their material existence. Now, they have discovered this, made this motor, nice… Now there is problem, no power, gasoline. And if the gasoline is stopped, then your whole endeavor is gone. So this is their business. They are manufacturing something which will entangle him more and more. That he does not know.
Gopala Krsna: Now they have reduced the output of big cars because previously they were making big cars.
Prabhupada: Just see. Now how the business will… Another problem. The factory… How will so many men…? So they will create problem. Therefore Krsna says, “You give up all this nonsense desire.”
Gopala Krsna: The airlines have laid off so many thousands of people because there isn’t enough gasoline to fly all the aeroplanes. So they are just laying off people. They are becoming unemployed now.
Prabhupada: Yes, one after another, problem will come.
Svarupa Damodara: Coming to the brain again, the, some people are working. Why some people are insane? For example, the mechanism of working the brain, some of the chemical pathways, they say, change, block. So some people become insane.
Prabhupada: Insane? Then he cannot work. That’s all. Even if I give you good machine… Just like I do not know how to work on it, so similarly, if one does not know how to work, then it is useless machine.
Karandhara: They are thinking that by certain types of chemicals they can correct things like depression and unhappiness. They say it’s all just a chemical situation in the brain.
Prabhupada: But that they propose so many nonsense things, but they cannot do anything.
Svarupa Damodara: They are making experiments on rats now.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. They will go on experimenting life after life. That is their foolishness.
Gurukrpa: Next life they may have to experiment in a dog’s body.
Prabhupada: Yes. And some of our politicians, he has become a dog. Yes. Nehru. He has become a dog, in Stockholm. Yes.
Gopala Krsna: I told that to my mother and she would not believe it. You know, people think that if someone is a great politician or something, he can never become something like this.
Prabhupada: Then why the politician dies? If he has got so good brain, let him live forever.
Gopala Krsna: People have so much blind faith in people like Nehru and Gandhi.
Prabhupada: Jawaharlal Nehru did not want to give up his Prime Ministership unless he was collapsed. So why he did not live if he is so intelligent? And Krsna says, if you have to believe Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. “He has to accept another body.” So why you should disbelieve that he has accepted a dog’s body? Because the acceptance of body is not your business. It is the business of higher nature. Daiva-netrena. So if the daiva likes that “You must take this dog’s body,” how can you refuse it? You cannot refuse.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, yesterday in the paper I saw a picture. Nixon had his sixty-first birthday, and he had a big cake made, and he offered the first bite, the first lick to his dog.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is good. That is stated in the Bhagavad… arto ‘rtharthi. He is in great distress. Now he is taking shelter of God. Arto ‘rtharthi. Then he is good at least. Catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtino ‘rjuna. Artah. Artah means very much distressed. He is very much distressed than all the Americans.
Gurukrpa: He had a cake for his sixty-first birthday. He gave the first bite to his dog, d-o-g.
Prabhupada: Oh, not God?
Devotees: No, no, dog. (everyone laughing)
Svarupa Damodara: Dog has become his God then.
Prabhupada: Then why he should not become dog? Become yam yam vapi… He has great love for dog, and it is said that yam yam vapi smaran loke tyajati [Bg. 8.6], at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog. This is…
Yasodanandana: One time I asked one Indian man, “Why is it that people beat the dogs in India?” He says, “Because the English people were ruling for so long. Now they have taken birth as dogs. We beat them.”
Gopala Krsna: In America taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It’s a very big business.
Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.
Candanacarya: They buy ten thousand dollar necklace for their dog.
Prabhupada: Just see how much attracted.
Candanacarya: Yes, when they die, they leave all their money to the dog.
Prabhupada: So why they refuse to become a dog? Why they refuse to become a dog?
Karandhara: Some of them would like to become.
Umapati: Some of them think dogs and cats are more intelligent than people.
Prabhupada: Intelligent, ant is also intelligent than any human being. So they live within the hole of wall, and there is no scarcity. Can you become like that? You live within your apartment and there is no scarcity. Wherefrom he gets food? They are more intelligent than human being. Everyone has got some specific talent, either human being or cats and dogs or ants, everyone. Just like the vultures, they go four miles, five miles above and they can find out where is a corpse, where is a dead body. But you cannot do that. You see? Immediately pounce on it. Hundreds of vulture will come. Did you not see it? So they are intelligent more than human being. Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: That is called acintya. Every living entity has some special quality.
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)