Svarupa Damodara: I am just collecting what Srila Prabhupada explained, the different acintya-saktis that we observe.
Prabhupada: Here the acintya-sakti is working, this mist, fog. You have no power to drive it away. Beyond your power. You can explain with some juggling of words…
Passer-by: Good morning.
Prabhupada: Good morning. …that “Such chemicals, such molecules, such this, that,” there are so many things. But (laughing) you have no power to drive it away.
Svarupa Damodara: Yeah. They have no explanation how the mist is formed. They call…
Prabhupada: That you can do. That is, I can do also. It is not very great credit. But if you know how it is formed, then counteract it.
Svarupa Damodara: We know how it is formed.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you know, then you discover, counteracting. Just like formerly, in the warfare the atomic brahmastra was thrown. On the other side… brahmastra means excessive heat. So they caused something, they transformed into water. Because after heat, there must be water. So where is that science?
Svarupa Damodara: It is just like milk. Milk looks white, but it is just water. They call it, it’s a colloidal suspension of proteins, these caseins, in water. So similarly, this fog is just a colloidal suspension of water in the air.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you create some fire. It will be immediately driven away. Water can be driven away by fire. So you create. That you cannot. You just shot one bomb. There will be some heat, and all the mist will go away. Do it.
Karandhara: That would blow up the planet. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Water can be counteracted by fire or air. Everyone knows it. So you do it, suspension. So this is for you mystic power. You can talk all nonsense, but you cannot act against it. Therefore it is mystic power. So similarly, there are so many things. That is acintya-sakti. You cannot think of even. By nature’s way, immediately the sun rises — no more mist. All finished. A little temperature increase of the sun, all finished. Niharam iva bhaskarah. This example is given in the Bhagavata. Nihara, this is called nihara. Just like nihara is immediately dissipated by bhaskara, by the sun, similarly, if one can awaken his dormant devotion, then all finished, all his reaction of sinful activities, finished. Niharam iva bhaskarah. You just create… You calculate sun is composition of this chemical, that chemical. Just create one sun and throw it. Simply theoretical future, bluff and juggling of words, that’s not good.
Svarupa Damodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupada: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogi became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Krsna as God — inconceivable power. We accept Rama — inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, “I am incarnation of God.” Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. “Ramakrishna is God.” We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Krsna, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Ramacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: “Come on.” So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, “Oh, these are all stories.” What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Valmiki and Vyasadeva and other acaryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Krsna: “Krsna, what to do?” “All right.” He simply swallowed up the whole fire. This is inconceivable mystic power. That is God. Aisvarya-vairagya-yaso-‘vabhodha-virya-sriya. These six opulences in full. That is God. That inconceivable power, inconceivable energy or mystic power, we have got also. Very minute quantity. So many things are going on within our body. We cannot explain. The same example. My nails are coming exactly in the form. Although it is spoiled by disease, again it is coming. I do not know what machinery is going on, and the nail is coming, exactly fitting the position and everything. That is coming from my body. So that is mystic power. Even it is mystic power for me and to the doctors, everyone… They cannot explain.
Krsna-kanti: The doctors are marveling at the complex nature of the human brain. They are amazed.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. But they are rascal. It is not the brain that is working. It is the spirit soul that is working. The same thing: the computer machine. The rascal will think that a computer machine is working. No. The man is working. He pushes the button, then it works. Otherwise, what is the value of this machine? You keep the machine for thousands of years, it will not work. When another man will come, put the button, then it will work. So who is working? The machine is working or the man is working? And the man is also another machine. And it is working due to the presence of Paramatma, God. Therefore, ultimately, God is working. A dead man cannot work. So how long a man remains living? So long the Paramatma is there, atma is there. Even the atma is there, if Paramatma does not give him intelligence, he cannot work. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. God is giving me intelligence, “You put this button.” Then I put this button. So ultimately Krsna is working. Another, untrained man cannot come and work on it because there is no intelligence. And a particular man who is trained up, he can work. So these things are going on. Ultimately comes to Krsna. What you are researching, what you are talking, that is also Krsna is doing. Krsna is giving you in… You, you prayed for this facility to Krsna. Krsna is giving you. Sometimes you find accidentally the experiment is successful. So when Krsna sees that you are so much harassed in experimental, “All right do it.” Just like Yasoda Ma was trying to tie Krsna, but she could not do. But when Krsna agreed, it was possible. Similarly, this accident means Krsna helps you: “All right, you have worked so hard, take this result.” Everything is Krsna. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. Everything is coming from Krsna.
Svarupa Damodara: They say, “Krsna didn’t give me the proper steps how to do the experiments.”
Prabhupada: Yes, he gives you. Otherwise how you are doing it. Whatever you are doing, that is by Krsna’s grace. And when you are still favorable, then Krsna will give you more facilities. Krsna will give you facility, will favor you, as much as you desire, not more than that. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva… As much proportionately you surrender to Krsna, the intelligence will come. If you fully surrender, then full intelligence will come. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Wet? (Asking about the ground)
Svarupa Damodara: No. Little wet, but not much.
Prabhupada: Krsna says, “You fully surrender. I give you full protection.” Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. He will give you full intelligence. [break] …these facts in Krsna consciousness. That will be our great success when the scientific world will admit. Let them admit simply. Then our Krsna consciousness movement will (be) great success. You simply admit, “Yes, there is God and mystic power.” Then our movement is very successful. And that’s a fact. Simply talking like a nonsense amongst the nonsense, that is not a very great credit. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. One blind man is leading other blind man. What is the value of such? They are all blind. And so long one remains blind and rascal, he does not accept God. This is the test. As soon as we see that he does not accept God, he is blind, rascal, fool, whatever you can call. Take it for granted, however, whatever he may be. He’s a rascal. On this principle we can challenge so many big, big chemist, philosopher, whoever comes to us. We say, “You are demon.” The other chemist came, you brought him, that Indian?
Svarupa Damodara: Hm. Chouri.(?)
Prabhupada: Chouri. (laughing) So I told him that “You are a demon.” But he was not angry. He admitted. And all his argument was refuted. Perhaps you remember.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that “Krsna didn’t give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment.” He was saying like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Krsna, why Krsna will give you facility? If you are against Krsna and you want the credit without Krsna, that’s not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Krsna will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Krsna, we believe that “There is Krsna. When I shall talk with him, Krsna will give give me intelligence.” This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child He can challenge a very big man because he knows, “My father is there.” He is catching the hand of the father, and he’s sure that “Nobody can do anything to me.”
Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, I want to make sure the meaning of Tad apy aphalatam jatam. Tesam atmabhimaninam.
Prabhupada: Tad apy aphalatam jatam. Tesam atmabhiman…, balakanam anasritya govinda-carana-dvayam.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. “The human form of life becomes spoiled for those…”
Prabhupada: Yes. “Who do not try to understand Krsna consciousness. Simply he dies like animal.” That’s all. Just like the cats and dogs, they also take birth. They eat, sleep, and beget children, and die. The human life is like that.
Svarupa Damodara: Jata means the species?
Prabhupada: Jata. Jata means born. Aphalatam jatam. Jata means it becomes futile. Futile. The human form of life becomes futile if he does not accept govinda-carana. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. If he’s not convinced that “I worship the original Personality of Godhead Govinda,” then he’s spoiled. That’s all. His life is spoiled.
Svarupa Damodara: Atmabhimaninam means the…
Prabhupada: Atma, dehatma-maninam. “I am this body.”
Svarupa Damodara: So those self-centered…
Prabhupada: Self? They have no information of the self. These rascals, they think, “I am this body.” Atma means body, atma means self, atma means mind. So this atmabhimani means bodily concept of life. Balaka. Balaka means a fool, child, balaka. Atmabhimaninam balakanam. Those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are like children, fools, or animals.
Svarupa Damodara: So I plan to expound the principle of transmigration through this verse.
Prabhupada: Yes. Transmigration. Bhramadbhih. Bhramadbhih means transmigration, wandering from one body to another. Just like I am here. I have got my this body, a dress, covering. And when I go India, this is not required. So they are taking that the body has evolved like that. But no. Here, under certain condition, I accept this dress. In another place, under certain condition, I accept another dress. So I am the important, not this dress. But these rascals are studying the dress only. That is called atmabhimanam, considering of the dress, body. Balakanam. Just see. They bring here dogs for passing stool. Dog stool is so very much infectious. The diphtheria and other germs, they are grown. But these rascals they do not know. They distribute dog stool everywhere. But cow dung, there is no cow dung. Vedas says cow dung is pure. That is neglected. Dog stool is pure. This is their intelligence. They give signboard: “Littering illegal”?
Prabhupada: But dog stool is not illegal. Just see how foolish they are. If you drop a paper on this grass, that is illegal. But you can get your dogs pass stool, it doesn’t matter. This is their intelligence. They will not allow if you are bringing one mango from other part of the country, but they will allow dog also bringing so many germs. They do not know. Dog also brings so many germs, infectious germs.
Svarupa Damodara: That is why they were very careful. When the astronauts from the moon, when they come back on the surface of the planet, they thought there might be some germs which they do not know yet. So they put it in quarantine for several days, to make sure that they are…
Prabhupada: First of all make sure whether he had gone there, and then talk of all these things. (laughing) I am not sure they are going there.
Krsna-Kanti: You know they made another blunder.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. What is that?
Krsna-Kanti: They made a spaceship that they wanted to orbit around the earth so that they could send men and ship an outpost.
Karandhara: A house, station.
Krsna-Kanti: So they sent it up and it failed. It cost two billion dollars or something, squandered.
Prabhupada: Just see why they are wasting time in that way? Money.
Krsna-Kanti: They were criticized in the paper.
Prabhupada: Fool. Simply childish. Balaka. What are they gaining? For the last, how many years they are trying? For going to the moon planet?
Svarupa Damodara: Russia started in 1957. First sputnik where Gagarin was there…
Prabhupada: Twenty-five years. So they could not get anything, not a single farthing even. Still, they are doing. Just see, obstinacy. Punah punas carvita. This is called chewing the chewed. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. They will never be successful. So I am a layman. When I wrote that Easy Journey? In 1950, 67. How many years?
Karandhara: Six years.
Prabhupada: No, no. Not 67, 57. Sixteen years before. They are all childish. I am a layman. It will never be successful. It is already written there in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. Here also, that, some press reporter asked me in San Francisco, when I landed, “What is your position about this moon planet?” “It is simply a waste of time and energy. That’s all. You cannot go there.”
Svarupa Damodara: They have very big plan in the future, going to the surface of the Mars planet.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is future. That is all your statement, future. With future hope you become a big man. That is their foolishness.
Svarupa Damodara: Future, about ten years.
Prabhupada: Whatever… It may be one year, but we do not accept such proposition. We want to see what you have done now.
Svarupa Damodara: First of all they have to develop the methods how to do it by a small scale…
Prabhupada: In my childhood I was thinking… The tramcar is going on trolley. So I was thinking I shall stand on the tram line and just take a stick and touch the wire and I will go. I was planning like that. (laughter)
Svarupa Damodara: [break] without knowing Krsna, is this a struggle for existence, any activity?
Prabhupada: Yes. Activity without knowing the purpose of it, that is struggle for existence. You must know why you are working so hard. What for I shall work? The aim of life is missing. Na te viduh. They do not know it. Therefore failure, confusion, hopelessness. All the results of this world, hopelessness. Is it not? What is one… Show one result, that it is very successful, hopeful. Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that “We are failure.” Still they will stick, “Yes, we are success… Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind.” I have seen, one man was condemned to death in Allahabad high-court. So the lawyer was assuring, “Don’t be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal. Don’t be disappointed.” I have seen it. That lawyer was very big lawyer, an Englishman, Mr. Allston. And one man was condemned to death. He killed his servant very mercilessly. And the case was… He was a doctor, medical practitioner. So he was condemned to death. So after the condemnation, when he was coming out of the courtroom, I saw that he was flattering, “Don’t be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal.” This is going on. He wants to bluff him, but this is the high-court judgement. How there can be appeal? There may be appeal in the Supreme Court, but he is simply bluffing. Just like medical men. They’ll repeatedly give you medicine, “All right, let me try this. This pill you try. This pill you try.” They will never admit, “This is hopeless.” This is going on. Bluffing, simply bluffing. Cheating, that’s all.
Krsna-Kanti: If they admit they are failures, they’ll never get any more grants.
Prabhupada: You see. All utopian. One platform… It is called akasa-puspa, akasa-puspa, to get flower from the sky. It is called akasa-puspa. This kind of plan is called akasa-puspa. Akasa-puspa. Or the bakanda-nyaya. Bakanda, the testicle of the bull and the duck, he is expecting, “Here is a fish. It will drop, and I will take it.” He is following. Have you seen? In India we have seen many. The bull is going on, on the…, and the baka is going on. And whole day and night, he is after that. “It is a fish, big fish. It will drop and I shall take.” Bakanda-nyaya.
Svarupa Damodara: There is also a bird, Srila Prabhupada; it is called heron.
Prabhupada: Heron? I do not know.
Svarupa Damodara: Yeah. They have long beaks. They also, they are always with the cows.
Prabhupada: That is baka. We call baka.
Svarupa Damodara: They are all the time… They stay mostly in wet lands.
Prabhupada: Yes, bakanda-nyaya.
Svarupa Damodara: The scientists, when we say that “The attempts that you are doing are no good.” Then they want to make sure that what I am saying is right.
Prabhupada: Yes, because I see that you are rascal, therefore I am right. You are rascal. You don’t admit, but I see that you are rascal. You don’t admit, but I see that you are a rascal. Therefore I am right. This is the argument. You are so rascal that you cannot admit your rascaldom. Just like this moon planet expedition. But I, sixteen years before, I told that these are rascals. Therefore I am right.
Svarupa Damodara: They claim that “We have done so much.”
Prabhupada: What have you done? You have simply spoiled money. That’s all. In that sense I have done so much. Simply by teaching people, “Chant Hare Krsna,” they are coming to such light. What do you think? I have done most wonderful thing than them.
Svarupa Damodara: But even if they do not know during their lifetime, at least, towards the end of their life, at the time of death, then they’ll remember that, “I have wasted my life.”
Prabhupada: That is warned by Sankaracarya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that “I have simply wasted my life.” He admitted, “I have not given anything.” Balakanam. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyasi. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyasi. Just like Gandhi, “Saintly statesman.” He is recorded, “Saintly statesman.” He’s a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi’s non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose’s violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gita is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.
Svarupa Damodara: In one of the articles by Bharatiya… There’s a man called Bharatiya, in… What is (indistinct) university? He was saying that Nirana Subhas Bose, he wanted to join Ramakrishna Mission. Is this true, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: For future. No. Might be. He wanted to join? Why he should join? Why he did not join?
Svarupa Damodara: It was explained that he had a better, great mission, so he should not join, “You should do your…” By that time he was started, fighting for freedom. So he was not allowed…
Prabhupada: So what was that greater mission?
Svarupa Damodara: For independence, fighting.
Prabhupada: No. Why he wanted to join Ramakrishna mission? What is the attraction of Ramakrishna mission? What they have done? Ramakrishna mission, what they have done? The Ramakrishna mission is working here in your country… (end)