Prabhupada: In the material world, everyone is given the facilities for eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defense. Now, if some dangers come, so we may be victims, but a bird immediately goes. He has better defense. Is it not? If some dangers come immediately… Suppose all of a sudden a motorcar comes and kills us. We cannot do anything, but the bird, small bird, “Hut!” He can do that. Is it not? So his defensive measure is better than us. Similarly, I want to have sex. I have to arrange for that, find out some… But the female bird is always around him, at any time. This sparrow, the pigeon. You have seen it? Immediately ready for sex life. And eating? Oh, there is some fruit. Immediately he can eat. And sleeping? That is also very comfortable. So these facilities, don’t think that it is available on this skyscraper building. They are available for the birds and the beasts. It is not that unless you have got a very nice apartment in the skyscraper building, you cannot have all these facilities of eating, sleeping and sex life. Anywhere. Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. This is called visaya. Visaya means the facilities for sense enjoyment. That is called visaya. Our process is visaya chadiya se rase majiya. One has to give up this visaya and relish the transcendental bliss. It is a different platform. And these persons, bodily concept of life, their only enjoyment is this visaya. So sastra says that you are after visaya. This is available in any life. Why you are repeating this visaya in different forms of life either as bird or beast or tree or human being or cats and dogs? Punah punas carvita carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. Again and again, the same thing, in different forms. So those who are interested with this visaya, matir na krsne paratah svato va, they cannot become Krsna conscious, paratah, by instruction of spiritual master or experienced person, or by themselves. Themselves, they cannot. Even by instruction by the spiritual master or higher authorities. Paratah. Svatah, personally, or by others’ instruction, matir na krsne, they cannot become Krsna conscious. Mitho ‘bhipadyeta. Mithah, or by conference, consulting, making a meeting, “What is the problem of life?” They cannot take to Krsna consciousness. Why? Grha-vratanam. So long they have got this determination, “We shall be happy in this material world,” they cannot take… Grha-vratanam. Grha means home and grha means this body also. Those who are trying to be happy within this body, material world, they cannot take to Krsna consciousness. Matir na krsne paratah svato va mitho ‘bhipadyeta grha-vratanam. Why they cannot? Adanta-gobhih: their senses are so uncontrolled. Therefore they must undergo the process of punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], again and again, the same visaya: eating, sleeping, mating. That’s all.
Nitai: So our business is to convince them that they can’t be happy in the material world?
Prabhupada: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punah punas carv…, the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing… This man will say, “Exploit others,” and other man shall, “Give food to the others.” What is there? Give food to the others or exploit — the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, “Exploit others.” The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that “Let me capture that food.” This is exploitation. And another will say “No, first of all give food.” So they are fighting like this. So everyone’s aim is that we shall remain within this material world and happy. Therefore grha-vratanam.
Satsvarupa: If we can get enough to eat and sex, we will be happy.
Prabhupada: That’s all. And then they become impotent and go to the doctor, “Give me sex medicine.” You see? Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. The same thing. Not at home sex, but “Let us go to the prostitute, go to the naked dance.” They have no other ideas. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. These class of men cannot take to Krsna consciousness. First of all, one must be in knowledge that “I am not anything of this material world. I am spirit soul. My happiness is in the spiritual world.” Then he can be.
Haihaya: Some people say that what make us different from the animals is that we can enjoy art and we can enjoy music and we can enjoy all type of art…
Prabhupada: The animals… the snake also can enjoy music. Do you know that? You play very nice music. A snake will be charmed. He will stand. It will not attack you. Similarly the deers… The hunters, they play very nice music, and they assemble here, and they fight and kill them.
Nitai: The birds are also making their music.
Prabhupada: No. That is another thing. But these deer and the snakes, many animals, they are very much fond of music. They enjoy.
matir na krsne paratah svato va
mitho ‘bhipadyeta grha-vratanam
adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram
punah punas carvita-carvananam
Next question is “How one can become interested in the spirit soul or Krsna consciousness? How?” This is the position. They cannot. So next proposal is, “How they can be?” Naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim sprsaty anartha…, yad-arthagamam, niskincananam, pada-rajo-‘bhisekam.
naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim
sprsaty anarthapagamo yad-arthah
niskincananam (na vrnita yavat)
Naisam matih. Esam, “of these rascals and fools,” matih, “consciousness,” cannot be turned. Naisam urukramanghrim, “towards the lotus feet of Lord Krsna, Urukrama.” Urukrama means “one who acts very wonderful.” And his lotus feet. So naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim: “Their attention cannot be converted or turned towards the lotus feet of Krsna who acts very wonderfully.” Anartha apagamah: “And all these misconcepts of life becomes vanquished.” How it can be? Now, “So long one does not touch his head to the dust of a devotee of the Lord who is niskincana, who has nothing to do with this material world, that devotee, who is simply interested in Krsna.” If one has got the opportunity of touching his head to the lotus feet, to the dust of the lotus feet of such a great devotee, then it is possible. Otherwise, it is not. Niskincana, mahiyasam pada-rajo ‘bhisekam. Mahiyasam, such glorified devotee, the dust of the lotus feet, can help him, that’s all. Naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim sprsaty anartha [SB 7.5.32].
Satsvarupa: The pure devotee gives the chance to everyone, but only a few approach. So still the question is how can they become interested in the pure devotee?
Prabhupada: No, this is the…, that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that “If you do this, then you can be interested.” But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar… The same things Krsna, sarva-dharman parit… mam ekam. Krsna is demanding that you do it, “Surrender unto Me.” The sastra also says, “Surrender unto the representative of Krsna,” mahiyasam. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. That is the only attachment for this material world, visaya. Whole world is fighting for this visaya. “I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons.” This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that “In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way.” This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication. You know that? As soon as there is information, “On the top of the skyscraper building, there is a grain of sugar,” they will go. (laughing) Because sugar contains intoxication. The wine is made from sugar, molasses. It has got the intoxication. You keep a grain of sugar there, and there will be hundreds and thousands… (laughter) Gold rush. Study. You see what is the difference of this civilization and the ant civilization, dog civilization, cat civilization. No difference. It is in the simply formation only.
Dhananjaya: Yes, I’ve seen sometimes at the Sunday Feast we make some sweets, like sweetballs, and there’s some left over. They’d find the next day so many drowned ants, because they’d been so wild, they’d jump into it and drown themselves.
Prabhupada: So sastra says, labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambhavante: “My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavante. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life.” Labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambhavante manusyam: “This is human form of life.” Artha-dam: “Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore,” turnam yateta anumrtyu yavat, “before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success.” And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Visayah khalu sarvatah syat: “It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don’t waste simply for visaya.” Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhva su-durlabham idam bahu-sambhavante. These are the instructions of Prahlada. These rascals have no education to understand. Therefore we must give this education. We must induce them to read these books in the school, colleges. That is propaganda. Now we have got books. These rascals, they have no books to read about this realization. They have got only Freud’s philosophy and this… What is that? And Darwin’s theory. All rascaldom, simply rascaldom. Let them read these books. This philosopher, that philosopher. What is that? Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. The same philosophy, repeatedly for sense gratification, that’s all. That rascal Mahesh Yogi, he also said that, “You take this special mantra; your material enjoyment will be easier.” The same: the punah punas carvita. He has no other information. “It will be better.” And they accepting. “Oh, my enjoyment will be better? All right, take $35. Give me that mantra.” They like it because they are promising that “You will get this…” Politicians also, they are promising, “You take this ism. Your sense gratification will be easier.” The same promise. This ism or that ism. This yogi, that yogi. But nobody knows what is actually happiness. Harer nama harer nama harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha [SB 7.5.31]. They are trying to be happy by sense enjoyment, material body’s enjoyment. Durasaya. It is simply a hope which will never be fulfilled. Durasaya. Asaya means hope and dur means very difficult. It will not be possible. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. And they are being led by such rascal leaders, who are promising sense gratification. Because they are blind, another blind man comes and says that “You will be happy in this way. Come on this way. Your sense gratification will be very much easily satisfied. come on.” “Yes. Very good leader.” Adanta-gobhih. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te ‘pi [SB 7.5.31]. They forget that they are bound up by the stringent laws of nature. There is no freedom. Only varieties of sense enjoyment is offered because he want, want, wants. Actually, that is not enjoyment. That is bound up. Nature’s… If you enjoy more sex life, nature says, “All right, you become impotent for ten years.” And still he wants to enjoy. Little this way, that way — immediately punishment. “Oh, you have eaten more, three days suffer. No diet, no food. Suffer dysentery.” And they are enjoying. What is this enjoyment? As soon as violate a little of the nature’s law you are immediately punished. Na te viduh. Isa-tantryam baddhah. Isa-tantryam, the laws of nature, they are so much bound up, hands and legs. Still, they are declaring freedom. What is the freedom? Immediately he will be kicked by shoes as soon as he violates a little, immediately. There is ocean of salt. Now we require salt for making our foodstuff very tasty. But if you take little more salt, you cannot eat. No, you cannot eat. If you think, “Oh, so much salt? Let me put more salt, more salt,” it will be useless. You can take only so much quantity. That’s all. In this way you are bound up, always. And still, you are declaring freedom. What freedom? What is the meaning of this freedom? But they are fools. They cannot understand.
Haihaya: Then Krsna consciousness is the right quantity of salt.
Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Krsna consciousness. That is required. We don’t say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Krsna prasadam. We don’t say that “Don’t sleep.” No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for mangala-arati. This is our philo… Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don’t say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating. They have no time for Krsna consciousness. This condemned civilization must be stopped. Killing, killing civilization. The human being got the opportunity of getting out of this punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30], repeatedly, and they are not being given the chance. They are being engaged more and more for sense gratification, visaya. Killing civilization. Jnana-tapasa. Bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah. By this process, bahavah, many, by knowledge and tapasya. Putah, purified, came back, back to home. Bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah. Vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah, bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mam… [Bg. 4.10]. What is that, last word?
Nitai: Mad-bhavam agatah.
Prabhupada: Ah, mad-bhavam agatah. Mad-bhavam, “My nature.” “My nature” means spiritual nature. Krsna is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuntha planet. Agatah: “They came.” Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Krsna consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That’s all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nunam pramattah, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, “Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there.” What you will do then? “Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me.” All right, go. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that “I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body.” That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti na sadhu manye: [SB 5.5.4] “Oh, it is not good.” Na sadhu manye yata atmano’ yam: “This kind of activities will cover your soul by body.” “Well, this body is temporary. Don’t bother.” Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable. Why you are doing like this? Asann api. Although this body is temporary, but why don’t you understand that it is klesada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Klesada. This is klesada, another body you get, klesada. Any body you get, klesada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Krsna consciousness. That they do not know. Da means “that gives.” Any type of material body you accept will be klesada. They have constructed this building. If for few hours there is severe cold, so many people will die, even in this comfortable building. Is it not? So klesada is there; either you remain in this way or that way, the sufferings will be there. And to take this comfort of this high building, how much klesada, how much miserable condition, one has to pass. “Sir, I am not doing; the workers are doing.” But you have to collect the money to pay them. How much miserable it is to acquire this money to pay another klesada, laborer. So simply they are captivated by money. Otherwise it is klesada. Sometimes they fall down and die while constructing. Is it not? Now, I have heard that in New York there are many buildings and there is no tenant. Klesada. The proprietor of the house, he is also suffering. “I have spent so much money. No tenant.” In London I have seen there is, for the last six or seven years, very big building. It is vacant.
Dhananjaya: Tottenham Court Road. Yes, that big one. Central Point.
Prabhupada: Yes (laughing). His klesada is if he keeps tenant, that is more miserable than without keeping tenant. Is it not? Yes. Therefore he keeps without. Because so much taxes will have to be paid that it will be more miserable than keeping tenants. So he is avoiding that. So while constructing, it was troublesome; now, keeping this, it is also troublesome. To find out pleasure they have manufactured so many things. But still, they cannot enjoy it. For few minutes they can enjoy; again it is nonsense. “Let us go away.” [break]
Satsvarupa: …that I can actually become a bird or a dog because…
Prabhupada: What are these… Wherefrom these birds and dogs are coming? Let them answer. Wherefrom they are coming?
Nitai: Well, they would say from other birds and dogs.
Prabhupada: Yes, other birds or these birds, wherefrom they are coming?
Satsvarupa: But that’s not my condition. I am a human being.
Prabhupada: That you may think, but you do not know the nature’s law. You have to accept. Just like this apartment, either you accept or somebody accept. Similarly, these bodies are apartment. You have to accept or your brother has to accept. Somebody must accept. They are also living entities. Wherefrom they are coming? As I am a living entity, they are also living entity. So changing body, I may change to that body, he may change to this body. Where is the unreasonableness? We are all living entities. These are different types of bodies. So we have to accept some body. Similarly, he has to accept some body. So he may accept my body, I may accept his body. This apartment change. I may go to this apartment, he may go to another apartment. But there are so many apartments, grha. Therefore it is called grhamedhi. If you say, “No, no, I am not going to accept that apartment.” “No, no, it is not your judgement.” Daiva-netrena. “What money you have got, sir, to occupy?” “I have no money.” “All right, then go this apartment.” You must accept. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. By your work it will be ascertained what kind of apartment you will get. It is not upon your decision. There are so many, many rascals. They think that after getting human body, he is never degraded. The theosophists think like that. That is very palatable. (laughing) But nature will force him to accept the body of a cat and dog. That is not your decision. Daiva-netrena, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that “No, no, I am not going to accept this post.” No. You have to accept. Karanam guna-sango ‘sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg. 13.22]. These different types of birth are due to your association with different types of the modes of material nature. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties. One has become crow, one has become sparrow, one has become human being, one has become dog, one has become cat, one has become tree, one has become grass. But nature is so expert that in spite of different varieties of life, the nature assembles them in such a nice way that it looks beautiful. There is grass, there is tree, there is sparrow, there is human being, but arrangement is such nice that everything… (end)