Prabhupada: And I say they have not gone to moon, that is my point. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: They have become “moonies.”

Prabhupada: The might have gone to some hell, that is, I have no objection.

Indian man: Or the moon or anything.

Prabhupada: Huh? (laughing) This is a little revolting (revolutionary). But I am speaking from the very beginning. Yes, I wrote that Easy Journey to Other Planets in 1958, and you’ll find this statement in my book. It is all childish.

Dr. Patel: You have to be yogi for that.

Prabhupada: I am yogi because I am taking lessons from the yogis…

Dr. Patel: Yoga dharana.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yogi, I am taking lesson from Sukadeva Gosvami. I may be fool, but I am taking lesson from the yogi. Yes. So yatra yogesvarah krsnah tatra srir vijayo bhutir [Bg. 18.78]. I don’t require to be a yogi. I take shelter of the yogesvara.

Dr. Patel: Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg. 6.47].

Prabhupada: So, my problem, there is no problem, because as soon as there is Krsna, srir, vibhutir, victory, everything is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So we have got everything, but I am not a yogi. We must believe in the words of Bhagavad-gita. Yatra yogesvarah krsnah yatra dhanur-dharah parthah tatra srir vibhutir vijayo. Everything is there. That art we have to learn, that let us become dependent like Arjuna on Krsna, then everything is there.

Dr. Patel: Krsnah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese ‘rjuna tisthati.

Prabhupada: Yes, and He teaches also…

Dr. Patel: You consult Krsna within before you do…

Prabhupada: Yes, but Krsna is not so foolish that He will give consultation…

Dr. Patel: He’ll give consultation free of charge…

Prabhupada: …to the nondevotees. Arjuna was a devotee. That tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam prithi-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is constantly engaged in Krsna’s service, to him He gives intelligence, not to the rascals. Krsna is there, but — even in the heart of the pig or dog — but He does not give any instruction to the pig and dog. They must suffer. But only to the devotees: tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. To them. Otherwise Krsna is staying everywhere.

Dr. Patel: To them He gives yoga-ksemam.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is open to even cats and dog. You’ll get your food. They’re getting their food. That is not very difficult thing. Eko yo bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. Krsna is…, Krsna, He can, ah, bhu-bhrt, bhuta-bhrt. His name is bhuta-bhrt. He is maintaining everyone.

Dr. Patel: Bhuta-bhrt, bhutastho.

Prabhupada: Bhuta-bhrt means (Hindi). All living entities are being…

Dr. Patel: But He is bhutastho also.

Prabhupada: That is also, but another name is bhuta-bhrt. He maintains all living entities. So that is not a very difficult job.

Dr. Patel: But sir, I want to ask a question. In Bhagavad-gita He says, “I am in them, and I am not in them also.” That means, sir, both His, all the beings are in the…

Prabhupada: No, “not in them” for the understanding of these rascals whose takes it that because Narayana is everyone, heart, then everyone is Narayana, daridra-narayana.

Dr. Patel: Not daridra.

Prabhupada: Or to warn these rascals, He says, “I am not there. I am not there.”

Dr. Patel: It is not like that, that He is there…

Prabhupada: Because he is a foolish man, if you say “Because Narayana is there, everyone is Narayana,” he will misunderstand. Therefore Krsna says, “No, I am not there.” Na caham tesv avasthitah. This is the…

Dr. Patel: Would it not be considered like this, sir, that He is in the Golok as well as here?

Prabhupada: Yes, Goloka, position of, goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto [Bs. 5.37], that is Krsna.

Dr. Patel: Akhilatma-bhuto.

Prabhupada: But don’t take that because akhilatma bhuto, Narayana is in the dog, therefore I have to worship dog. This is going on. Daridra-narayana. And why not dhani-narayana? What is the…. This foolishness is going on. And Narayana is everywhere. If you have such a, I mean to say, advanced vision, that Narayana is everywhere — that is also mentioned; therefore you should keep respect — then why do you make discrimination, that only daridra-narayana? Why not dhani-narayana?

Indian man: Last time you gave the example of the curd and the milk. That was very good example.

Prabhupada: Yes. Why the…, not dhani-narayana? Or the dog Narayana or the goat Narayana? Goat Narayana cut his throat; fish Narayana cut his throat…

Dr. Patel: Atmavat sarva-bhutesu, sir.

Prabhupada: These rascals are going on. Therefore Krsna says, “I am not there, naham tesv avasthitah,” to teach these rascals. Otherwise, they’ll misunder…

Dr. Patel: Does it not mean, sir, that naham tesv avasthitah, “I am staying in Goloka”?

Prabhupada: No, no. He says, maya tatam idam sarvam [Bg. 9.4], “I am everywhere, but still I am not there.” Because these rascals will misunderstand.

Dr. Patel: It seems ambiguous to understand, sir.

Prabhupada: Not ambiguous. It requires knowledge from the guru.

Dr. Patel: So we have come.

Prabhupada: If you manufacture your own knowledge, then you’ll never be able to understand. (everyone laughs) Tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] compulsory. You cannot understand; that is not possible. My Guru Maharaja used to say that the honey, huh? Honey, honey, if somebody says, “Take this honey,” the bottle, and he began to lick up the bottle: “It is not sweet. Why it is not sweet?” You go to a person who can open the bottle. (laughter) Then you’ll see. You cannot taste the sweetness of honey by licking up the bottle. It must be… There must be some expert who can open it, and then you can taste. So they are trying to taste the honey in the bottle by their own imagination and licking up the bottle. Where is the taste? Otherwise why Krsna says,

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

[Bg. 4.34]

One who has seen, one who knows where is the honey is there, go there, and he’ll open, and you’ll understand.

Dr. Patel: So “I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for you,” like that, is that the meaning you say?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Dr. Patel: “I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for those who are tattva-darsanas.”

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the way of learning everything. You cannot learn your medical science from a pan-wala. You have to go to a medical college.

Dr. Patel: They also give some (gowdies?) in the pan.

Prabhupada: But you cannot take your degree from the pan wala. Nowadays some of the rascals, they are preaching openly that you haven’t got to go to a guru. Huh, is it not?

Indian man: Krishnamurti is…

Prabhupada: Yes, this rascal was speaking like that.

Devotee: He has thousands of disciples.

Prabhupada: Such kind of…. as he is.

Dr. Patel: Nehi, krsnam vande jagat-gurum. He is a jagat-guru, if you approach Him also, there is no, I mean physical guru nearby, krsnam jagat-gurum, krsnam vande jagat-gurum.

Prabhupada: Yes…

Dr. Patel: He is jagat-guru…

Prabhupada: …you have to go to Krsna not directly: yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. You have to go through the devotee of Krsna.

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)

Prabhupada: That is adau sraddha. If you have got faith in Krsna, then next stage is tato sadhu-sangah. And who is sadhu? Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. So if you want to see Krsna, you have to see first of all His devotee. Mam bhaktya puja bhudhikah. This is also…. “If you worship My devotee, that is better worship than worshiping Me directly.” Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. He doesn’t say by Krsna-krpa, he says guru-krpa, first. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija.

Dr. Patel: Gurur brahma, gurur visnuh, they say that.

Sravanananda: Some life members (indistinct)…. completely ridiculous. They were worshiping everything as God, so in every temple they go in they would pay their obeisances, and if there is some tree, they will pay their obeisances, if there is some stone or brick, and is covered with kumkuma and turmeric, they would also pay their obeisances.

Prabhupada: So, what is the question?

Dr. Patel: Your answer is all right. Gurur brahma gurur visnuh. So I mean that is the philosophy of…


saksad-haritvena samasta-sastrair

yuktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya

vande guroh sri caranaravindam

In every sastra you’ll find, just like you say, gurur brahma gurur visnuh. In other words, saksad-haritvena, directly Hari.

Dr. Patel: Saksad-hari.

Prabhupada: Saksad-haritvena samasta-sastrair. Not that in a particular…. In all the sastra. And saksad-haritvena samasta-sastrair yukta, “It is said,” tatha, bhavyata eva sadbhih, “and this is accepted by all authorities.”

Dr. Patel: Sadbhih.

Prabhupada: Yes. Sadbhih. Not asadbhih. Asadhbhi says “No, no. I don’t require a guru. You make me guru.” If I don’t require a guru, then why you rascal you are speaking this? You are teaching, why you are teaching me?

Devotee: Last night’s question on that…

Prabhupada: Yes. If you don’t require a guru, then why you are teaching me, if you don’t require a guru? Hare Krsna. Jaya. (to passerby) These people, they say like that. You don’t require guru. You don’t require a book to study; everything you’ll get, within.

Dr. Patel: That is one of the…

Prabhupada: Why you are writing book? Everything is within. All right, but why you are writing book to convince? And why you are teaching them there is no need of guru? That means you want to be guru. All other gurus useless. Just see!

Dr. Patel: They, they’ll say that their mind is a part of the samasti mind, and you …

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, I require your help to understand it. Therefore you become my guru. If I require your help to understand something, that is guru. And you say there is no need of guru. Then why you are taking trouble, to teach me this nonsense?

Dr. Patel: If.. guru is necessity right from the birth, the first guru is the mother…

Prabhupada: And these rascals they preach like that: there is no need of guru.

Dr. Patel: I think they are wrong.

Prabhupada: Therefore rascals simply.

Dr. Patel: They are rascals, sir.

Prabhupada: Yes. Simply rascals. Rascals means he does not know the thing, and he still preaches. Therefore rascal.

Dr. Patel: That is how that Bhagavan has made so many gurus…

Prabhupada: A guru…. Guru must be there. There are many they say like that — “There is no need of guru.”

Indian man: But do you have to make an effort to get a, to achieve a sad-guru?

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Krsna says, tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34]. Pranipata means you have to surrender there. So you are not a fool. When you submit somewhere, you must test, and then submit. That is sad-guru.

Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that if you are very sincere, then the sad-guru comes automatically to you.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: As you have come to us.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because Krsna is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him — just like Dhruva Maharaja. Dhruva Maharaja, did not…, he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, “Yes, I shall find out Krsna.” Mother said “Krsna can be found in the forest,” so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Krsna sent Narada Muni, that “This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra.” That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu, guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Two things required: guru and Krsna. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija. Mali hana kare sei bija koro aropana. “I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest.” No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bija: mali hana sei bia koro aropana. And how to nourish the bija? Sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana: [Cc. Madhya 19.152] by sravanam kirtanam. Water is this. Then bhakti-lata will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.

Dr. Patel: Smaranam kirtanam…. pada pujanam. Yes.

Prabhupada: Kirtanam, arcanam, vandanam, dasyam…

Dr. Patel: Kirtanam, vandanam, dasyam…. atma-nivedanam. (kirtana as Prabhupada approaches temple) (end)