Giriraja: He said, “We don’t know where the ingredients came from, but we’re sure that there’s…”

Prabhupada: Then why do you talk nonsense? (laughter) That is another rascal. You do not know. Then what is the use of talking nonsense? You do not know wherefrom these ingredients came. That is nonsense. Our answer is, Krsna reveals, aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]: “The ingredients coming from Me.” Now make experiment how the ingredients are coming.

Devotee (1): But they say, “Where did Krsna come from?”

Prabhupada: That is Krsna. That is Krsna. Go to… By and by, you go to Krsna, and when you don’t find Krsna’s cause, that is Krsna. Anadir adih. He is anadi, but He is adi. That is Krsna.

Devotee (1): They say the original ingredients for the explosion, then, according to your definition, is Krsna.

Prabhupada: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You should never think like that.

Prabhupada: Krsna is the cause of all causes, sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. But He has no karana.

Dr. Patel: This is adi-prasna. Adi-prasna. Ma pracasva. Adi-prasna

Prabhupada: No, no. He is, after all, a student here. That… This is Krsna, that you go… Just like you are caused by your father. Your father is caused by your grandfather, his father, his father, his father, his father. In this way, if you go to Krsna, then He has no father, and that is Krsna. So long you will find another father, then he is not supreme. And when there is no more father, then He is supreme.

Dr. Patel: It is very difficult for us to understand the divya-bhava of Krsna. That is why people are asking these questions because divya-bhava is very difficult to be understood.

Prabhupada: Therefore it is said,

matir na krsne paratah svato va

mitho ‘bhipadyeta grha-vratanam

adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram

punah punas carvita-carvananam

[SB 7.5.30]

Those who are simply chewing the chewed, they cannot understand Krsna. Naisam matis tavad urukramanghrim [SB 7.5.32].

Yasomatinandana: Niskincananam…

Prabhupada: Ah. Niskincananam mahiyasam. It has to be understood from the same thing, tattva-darsinam. Otherwise it is not possible. You cannot speculate. If you say, as Gandhi said, “My Krsna is of my imagination,” that kind of knowledge has no value. What you are, your imagination? Matir na krsne paratah svato va. Paratah svato va. Vidya-bhagavatavadhih. If one reads Srimad-Bhagavatam, then he gets the ultimate knowledge of everything. That is the ultimate end, limit of knowledge.

Dr. Patel: Tasya karyam na vidyate.

Prabhupada: Matir na krsne paratah… Nobody can understand Krsna, and they are thinking, “In my imagination, Krsna is like this.” What is the value of this imagination?

Dr. Patel: That is why I said, sir, that divya-bhava is very difficult to tell because it is felt by the divya-bhava itself. It cannot be felt by the…

Prabhupada: Yes, and therefore Krsna said, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. Unless one is siddha, there is no question of understanding Krsna. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam [Bg. 7.3]. Even if he is siddha he cannot understand. Out of many of them, one may understand. And they are trying to understand Krsna by imagination. Just see the folly. Krsna said,

manusyanam sahasresu

kascid yatati siddhaye

yatatam api siddhanam


[Bg. 7.3]

And because one is voted some big man-sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19] — he is thinking…(laughter) He is thinking that “I can imagine my Krsna.” Hare Krsna. (laughter) [break] …accept the opinion of a samstutah purusah pasuh. Because public votes are there, although he is a purusah pasuh, we have to accept. So Ambarisa Maharaja, you are feeling all right or not?

Ambarisa: Yes, I am feeling well today.

Prabhupada: You are taking yogurt? Give him kicheri and yogurt.

Harikesa: He won’t eat yogurt. Ambarisa: No, I eat it with that sadhisav, gold(?), mixed in it.

Prabhupada: No, no. Take yogurt with black pepper and salt. Yes.

Ambarisa: Oh, okay.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Very good. What is your name?

Indian child: Kirtana.

Prabhupada: Kesan?

Indian child: Kirtana.

Yasomatinandana: Kirtana.

Prabhupada: Kirtana, oh.

Giriraja: Actually, he comes and dances in ecstasy in the temple.

Prabhupada: Very good. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31].

Giriraja: After the kirtana we read the Krsna book, and his parents want to leave, but he insists on staying.

Prabhupada: Good boy. Very good.

Yasomatinandana: What was that, inquired?

Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?

Yasomatinandana: Giriraja was saying something.

Giriraja: Oh, yes, the scientist. When the reporter asked him where the things come from, he said he doesn’t know but he’s sure that…

Prabhupada: Still, he is scientist. He doesn’t know. He is rascal, still he is scientist. (laughter) Just see. Contradiction. He doesn’t know. Still, he is scientist. One word. He doesn’t know anything, but he is scientist. Just see. (Hindi) And we have to hear him — the unfortunate position. We say that “Go for scientific knowledge to a person who knows, who has seen.” And this rascal, he says, “I do not know; still, I am scientist.” Then what he replied? He doesn’t know?

Giriraja: But he’s sure that they don’t need God to explain it.

Prabhupada: That he knows, how to deny God. That he is expert. And the newspaper reporter accepted this?

Giriraja: No. He didn’t express his point of view, but you could see he wasn’t satisfied.

Prabhupada: That is the position. Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Giriraja: Then he asked him about the future.

Prabhupada: Future is darkness because these are scientists. He doesn’t know; still, he is scientist. Then what is the future? Future is darkness, because a person who doesn’t know, he has become leader. The same thing, andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. If a blind man, he becomes the leader of other blind men…

Devotee (2): Actually it’s sad that if someone says there is no God then that means that they…

Prabhupada: He’s a dog.

Devotee (2): He’s a dog.

Prabhupada: Yes, immediately. Anyone who says there is no God, then he, immediately he’s a dog. That’s all.

Yasomatinandana: No more words.

Prabhupada: No more words. He is immediately a dog. That’s all.

Devotee (2): If he cannot see throughout the entire universe, from one end of the universe to the other, how can he make the statement that there is no God? He cannot see. And yet they are saying, “I don’t know.”

Prabhupada: This is reasonable. [break] …no God, it is spoken by pagala, mad, mad. In Bengal it is said, pagale ki na bale, chagale ki na khaya. (Hindi) Chagala, goat.

Brahmananda: “What the goat does not eat?” Is that?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: “What the goat does not eat?”

Prabhupada: It eats everything, goat.

Brahmananda: “And what the fool will not speak?”

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no discrimination. We can go this side. Pagale ki na bale, chagale ki na khaya. Hare Krsna.

Yasomatinandana: Now all these pagalas are making such a big noise all over the world.

Prabhupada: Yes. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. And doing all kinds of sinful activities — kurute vikarma — because they are pagalas. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma. It is very difficult there to cross?

Indian man (3): Yes, sir. [break]

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Indian man (3): What is your idea about the secularism preached by our government of India and the policy of secularism? What do they mean by that? That means they say that there is no place for religion.

Prabhupada: Yes. Dharmena hina pasubhih samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that’s all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Krsna. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure. This is the proof that they’re animals. Otherwise why? Hare Krsna. That is long, long ago said, dharmena hina pasubhih samana: “When you give up religion, you are no better than animals.”

Indian man (3): What is the harm if I become an animal also?

Prabhupada: You are already animal. There is no question of becoming animal. You are already animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): So what is the difference between animal and a man?

Prabhupada: Because you do not know, therefore you are animal. Therefore you are animal. You do not know what is the difference between man and animal; therefore you are animal.

Indian man (3): Very good. (laughter)

Prabhupada: You are good animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is right answer. When you cannot differentiate between man and animal, then that means you are animal.

Prabhupada: And you admit it — then good animal. (laughter) Hare Krsna. [break] …who has got this bodily conception of life, he is animal. That is the definition of animal.

Indian man (3): Anyone?

Prabhupada: Who is thinking, “I am this body,” he is animal.

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke

sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih

yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicit

janesv abhijnesu sa eva gokharah

[SB 10.84.13]

Indian man (3): Means?

Prabhupada: Means anyone who is thinking, “I am this body.”

Indian man (3): “I am the”?

Prabhupada: This body. And in body relationship, “She is my wife, she is my child, she is my countrymen, she is my race.” So this is dehatma-buddhih. Yasyatma-buddhih… “This is my country.” In this way one is thinking, and little more religiosity, he is going to holy place and taking bath in the river but not to the person who knows things. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. There are. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cow, and kharah means ass. This class of men are grouped among the cows and asses.

Dr. Patel: Asses.

Indian man (3): That means they have got no… Sthira buddhih neha(?) (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) This is animal civilization. There is no spiritual knowledge. Simply like cats and dogs, they are working hard, eating, sleeping…

Indian man (3): Then what should be the spirit of a man? How do you call him a man?

Prabhupada: When he knows that he is not this body — he is soul, aham brahmasmi — then he begins to become. Then his real identity…

Indian man (3): That means ninety-nine, ninety percent of the people living in the world are practically animals.

Prabhupada: Yes. Asses.

Indian man (3): Asses.

Prabhupada: Very good analysis. Why asses? And you load the ass with as much cloth, washerman, and he cannot move. But he will go on, and the washerman will give, after that, little grass, and he will stand there up to the evening again to be loaded. The ass does not know that “This much grass I can get anywhere. Why I have become servant of this washerman?” Therefore he is ass. He will eat two capatis, but he is working like an ass whole day.

Indian man (3): Yes. And he cannot eat more than two capatis.

Prabhupada: That’s all. So if the ass, he will eat a little grass, which can be had anywhere, but he is working for the washerman. Therefore he is ass.

Indian man (3): But (Hindi) in the ass… There is (Hindi) some egotism in the human being, but that is not there in the ass.

Prabhupada: No, no, that egoism also ass has got. That egoism is there in ass also.

Indian man (3): But how do you know it?

Prabhupada: Any animal, he knows that “I am ass.” Dog knows, “I am dog.” Similarly, if you know “I am Hindu,” “I am Mussulman” — the same conception. What is the difference? If a dog thinks “I am dog,” and if you think that you are Indian, then where is the difference? Simply by changing the name you become very big man? The conception is the same.

Indian man (3): That point is not clear.

Prabhupada: It is clear. Just like two dogs. He is thinking, “I am dog of this quarter,” and another dog is thinking, “I am this dog. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!” So what is that? Does that make any difference? Similarly, you are thinking, “Indian,” he is thinking, “American.” Fighting like dogs. Where is the difference between the dog and this conception?

Indian man (3): That point is right.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Indian man (3): Make your mind understand is very problematic.

Prabhupada: It is not problematic. It requires the association. Association, teacher, then it will be possible.

Indian man (3): Association is most necessary.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

Indian man (3): Namaste.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Hare Krsna. Thank you. [break] (Hindi)…reporter was not satisfied. Eh?

Brahmananda: Giriraja? The press reporter was not satisfied.

Giriraja: No. Then he asked him about the future.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. So what he will…? He does not know. What he’ll speak? Hare Krsna.

Giriraja: He said the population will go on increasing more and more, and there won’t be enough food, so everyone will starve.

Prabhupada: He said, the scientist. Then what your scientific knowledge will help?

Brahmananda: Well, if they drop some bombs they will reduce the population. (laughter)

Prabhupada: That is very easy. The bomb is also ready. Everyone has got now nuclear weapon, bomb. So the scientists gave the solution. So what is the use of scientific knowledge? This is going to happen.

Brahmananda: Actually there was one proposal. It was written in the seventeenth century in England by one famous writer, that “Because the population is increasing so much, therefore if we become cannibals, then the population will be maintained.”

Yasomatinandana: So who will eat who?

Brahmananda: Well, that he didn’t say.

Prabhupada: These are scientists, big men.

Giriraja: So the reporter asked him what were his personal plans for the future. So he said he likes one girl, so he wants to get married, and that’s all.

Brahmananda: Increase the population. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Our plan is the best because before meeting such catastrophies, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the best. They are seeing the catastrophe, but they have no way to escape. That is the difference between them and ourselves. Jaya. Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] …said that “There is no need of God, but there is need of girl, of a girl.” He said that. Then what is the difference between a scientist and a dog? The dog also does not know what is God, but another female dog he wants. Huh? What is the difference? Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Then it is proved that he is no better than animal. The animal requires another opposite sex, but he does not know God. Then where is the difference? [break]

Brahmananda: You know that the Detroit house, the house in Detroit? The president, he wrote in his letter. I neglected to ask you. He wanted to have a name for that temple.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Brahmananda: So Ambarisa prabhu says that he was thinking of New Kesighata, because it’s situated near the water.

Prabhupada: Kesighata we have already given in New Vrn…

Ambarisa: It’s right on a river. [break]

Prabhupada: …name that… Krsna… They brought the assembly house from heaven and located in Dvaraka. There is a name like that. I shall give you the name.

Brahmananda: [break] …robi. You can give a name for Nairobi mandir.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Devasadan.

Brahmananda: Devasadan. What is the meaning?

Prabhupada: Celestial building.

Ambarisa: What does it mean?

Brahmananda: Celestial.

Prabhupada: D-e-v-a-s-a-d-a-n. Devasadan. [break]

Brahmananda: …Devasadana?

Prabhupada: No. Devasadan.

Brahmananda: Just Devasadan.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Brahmananda: …Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Vrndavana is not black. (laughter) People have come less due to candra-gana. [break] Kiratuddhara.

Brahmananda: Kirata?

Prabhupada: Uddhara.

Brahmananda: Udha. Udha means?

Prabhupada: Uddhara means deliverance.

Brahmananda: Okay. “Delivering the kiratas.” They might object to that. (laughing) They might object to that.

Prabhupada: They might object?

Brahmananda: The Africans, if they ask what is the meaning of that, they might object.

Prabhupada: No, you can say kirata means African. Actually that is the meaning. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkhasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye ‘nye ca papa…

Yasomatinandana: Yad-apasrayasrayah.

Prabhupada: Suddhyanti.

Yasomatinandana: What is this Abhiras? Abhira?

Prabhupada: Abhira, this dacoit class.

Yasomatinandana: Dacoits.

Prabhupada: Just like the queens of Dvaraka were plundered by the Abhira. That’s why. There is no pasturing ground. Otherwise this cow would have been taken there. He would have eaten grass. That’s all. What she will eat here in the town? Even Sumati Morarji’s cows, they are not healthy. (Hindi) (pause) It appears to be so because in the evening the milk, whatever you give me, that appears to be powdered milk.

Brahmananda: It was powdered milk?

Prabhupada: It appears. Now it is confirmed.

Yasomatinandana: Maybe we should have our men stand there and milk and get directly from…

Prabhupada: Everyone will say, “We should have,” but who will have? There is no men. As soon as try to find out a man, there is no man. Simply we shall suggest, “We should have.” That’s all. And who is the man, that is not to be found, although we have got so many men. Why this deficiency? Everyone suggests that “There should have been a man,” but who is that man? No man. As soon as try to find out who is that man, no man. Find out a man immediately. Not “should have.” Immediately you must have. [break]

Brahmananda: …means?

Prabhupada: Means African.

Brahmananda: African? No other meaning to it? No other meaning?

Prabhupada: American? (laughter) (end)