Pradyumna: (leads chanting & reads translation:)
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam
“Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me.
Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.”
Prabhupāda: So what is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is recommending these four things: man-manā bhava, “always think of Me.” You, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. “You become My devotee.” Unless you become devotee, you cannot think of Kṛṣṇa. That is automatic. If you think of Kṛṣṇa always, that means you are devotee. Otherwise, why a person wastes his time thinking of Kṛṣṇa? He can think of business. He can think of so many other things. Only the devotee can think of Kṛṣṇa. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, then automatically you become devotee. Is there any objection? Who can think of Kṛṣṇa always? Not always even, think of Kṛṣṇa? Unless one is devotee? And to think of Kṛṣṇa, what is the difficulty? Huh? Is there any difficulty? To think of Kṛṣṇa? Thinking power we have got. We think so many… Our mind is never vacant. Always think something. We think of something always, twenty-four hours. That is mind’s nature.
So if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, then your life becomes successful. Where is the difficulty? Hmm? And the result is mām evaiṣyasi: by following these principles or thinking of Kṛṣṇa, which means to become a devotee… Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī [Bg. 18.65]. Anyone who is devotee, naturally he’ll worship Kṛṣṇa. The temple is there, we worship. Then? Man-manā bhava, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. And worshiping Kṛṣṇa means, if you cannot do anything, you simply go and offer your obeisances, that’s all. It is open to everyone. There is no restriction that such and such men can come and offer obeisances. No. Anyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye ‘pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Even born in low-grade family, it doesn’t matter. So where is the difficulty? That we want to discuss. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious, is there any difficulty for any person anywhere, any part of the world? Let us discuss this point. Huh? You sit down properly. I say you, yes. So, discuss this point. What is the difficulty? Why people are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the process is simple. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī [Bg. 18.65]. The result? Don’t divert your attention. Mām evaiṣyasi, what is the next line?
Devotee: Mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam.
Prabhupāda: Yuktvaiva, yuktvā means connected. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Him, offer obeisance, that means you are already connected. Yuktvaiva. What is the yuktvaiva meaning?
Devotee: Absorbed, being absorbed.
Prabhupāda: Then? Read the whole line.
Devotee: Mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam ātmānaṁ mat-parāyaṇaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ātmānam means Kṛṣṇa. He’s the Supreme ātmā. Just like we love ātmā, every one of us. We, if there is some danger, then immediately we try to protect ourself, protect this body from danger. Why? Why do you want to protect this body from danger? What is the reason.
Bhagavān: They identify the body as the self and the self is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is wrong conception, but actually, because I am living within this body, I want to give protection. This is the fact. Just like one protects his country because he lives there. Protects his house, protects his property because he has utilization. Similarly, because we have got utility for this body, we give protection. But when the living entity is no longer there within this body, there is no question of protection. It is thrown away. Even his father, mother or relatives, they take the body and throw away. In a different way, the body is thrown away. It has no more importance. So, then ultimately it comes that you love yourself. And you love yourself, but the self is the part and parcel of the Supreme Self. Therefore you love yourself because you love the Supreme Self. So therefore, ātmānaṁ mat-parāyaṇaḥ. Actually, everyone has got the loving propensity because he loves Kṛṣṇa. That is natural. So Kṛṣṇa says that simply by following this process, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Mām evaiṣyasi, you are trying to find out the supreme loveable object. So mām evaiṣyasi, come and let us live, loving one another. This is the goal of life.
Every one of us, we love Kṛṣṇa, but we are missing Him. Therefore we are placing our loving propensity wrongly, here, there, here, there, here, there, and we are becoming frustrated. Kṛṣṇa says that “If you simply follow this process, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, you come to Me, come to your original lover.” So where is the difficulty? To attain the highest perfection of life, where is the difficulty? Anyone can say that “Here is the difficulty”?
Devotee: You explain in Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpaḥrta-cetasām. “To those who are too attached to material enjoyment and material opulence the devotional service cannot take place.” This can be one difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Because we want material happiness, therefore there is difficulty. So, material happiness, you have got experience, it cannot give us satisfaction. The big, big countries, America, in Europe, and so many, they have advanced in material happiness, but actually they are not happy. Material happiness cannot give us happiness. Happiness, when we actually come to Kṛṣṇa and love Him… Happiness means also love. Either you love your family or your country or your society or your wife, your children, by loving there is happiness. But this loving process is not giving us happiness. We are becoming frustrated. Therefore the real lovable object being Kṛṣṇa, if we make progress to that point, then we shall be happy. This is the point. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. So if this is concluded, then where is difficulty to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That is my point. Now it is concluded that if we come to Kṛṣṇa and love Him, then that is the highest perfection of our life. Now to attain that highest perfection of life, where is the difficulty? That is the point I am asking.
Bhagavān: Only if one is envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Then there is no question of love, that is another thing, but if you actually want to love Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty?
Devotees: There is no difficulty.
Prabhupāda: That is my point. (laughter) If you don’t want to love somebody, then there is no question of process. But if you know, by loving such and such person you’ll be happy, then there is process and the process is very easy. And open to everyone. That is my point. Now discuss on this point.
Devotee: Sometimes devotees, they want to love Kṛṣṇa, but they fall down, they can’t seem to
Prabhupāda: No, no. They want to love Kṛṣṇa, but they divert their love to other things. That is the difficulty. If you want to love Kṛṣṇa, then follow this—man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then why you are diverting your attention? You are worshiping Deity, you are thinking of loving some woman. That’s all. Huh? Why you are diverting? If you love Kṛṣṇa, you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service, just decorate nicely. Why you are diverting your attention? That means I’m not yet convinced that by loving Kṛṣṇa I’ll be perfect. That is the difficulty.
Bhagavān: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11], as they surrender…
Prabhupāda: Everything is said there, we are discussing one point, that, one is, if we are convinced, that requires education. Love, we are being frustrated every point. Now when the perfectional point we shall come, that is by loving the original objective. There are so many examples. Just like a child, he is not happy in another woman’s lap, cries. But as soon as he comes to the lap of his own mother, he’s immediately happy. So, we are trying to be happy so many ways, but we are not becoming happy. When we come to the real point of loving Kṛṣṇa… Love is there. I want to love somebody, everyone, but that is not being properly utilized. Therefore we are unhappy. So when you come to the stage of loving Kṛṣṇa, then you’ll become happy. This is the point. That is being instructed by our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Now to love Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa never says that “In order to love Me, you have to go to the factory or to work somewhere fifty miles away from home.” He does not say all this. Simply, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. The question may be raised that if I want to love Kṛṣṇa, then how other things will go on? This question may be raised. Kṛṣṇa never says that “You have to go to the factory, earn money, and then you can love me.” He never makes this condition. Is there any condition? (laughter) Now practical person will say “If I think of Kṛṣṇa always, then wherefrom money will come?” This question may be raised. How you’ll answer it?
Bhagavān: Kṛṣṇa says yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22].
Prabhupāda: Ah, find out this verse.
ananyāś cintayanto māṁ
ye janāḥ paryupāsate
yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham
“But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental
form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.”
Prabhupāda: The same thing. This meditation is man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. So those who are engaged in this way, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, worshiping Kṛṣṇa, for such persons, Kṛṣṇa says yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22], “I personally carry all the necessities of life. I personally carry.” My point is that here in this New Māyāpura, if you simply carry on this man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, then all your necessities will come automatically, don’t bother. (laughter) That is my point, Yes. You’ll get sufficient food, sufficient milk, sufficient fruits, flowers, all necessities. Simply you act on behalf of Kṛṣṇa and think of Kṛṣṇa, and don’t bother about the necessities of life. It will be automatically supplied. Don’t be disturbed from that point of view. Simply engage yourself in this business of man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That is my point.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? How are we to determine how much of our endeavor should be for our own personal progress?
Prabhupāda: There is no personal endeavor. There is no personal endeavor. Just like these animals, they have no personal endeavor. They are depending on you. If you cut his throat, you can cut. And if you give him protection, you can give him. But they, the animals has no personal endeavor. That is full surrender. That is our position. Remain fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and He’ll give you protection. That you are thinking, how the animal will live, how these children will live. It is not the children’s business, not the animal’s business. He is fully surrendered, that’s all. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Other things will be done. Kṛṣṇa says yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. “I shall do that.” Why your personal endeavor?
Yogeśvara: Sometimes if we are faced with a service we think is beyond our means.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Where is that? Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ is beyond your means? That we have already discussed. It is not beyond your means. If you think of Kṛṣṇa who can check it? Why do you say beyond your means?
Bhagavān: Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked.
Prabhupāda: It cannot be checked. Ahaituky apratihatā. There is no question of checking.
Devotee: If somehow, Śrīla Prabhupāda, someone falls down, does that mean that he did not want to love Kṛṣṇa?
Devotee: If someone is doing some service which involves business, is he thinking of Kṛṣṇa when he’s thinking of that service?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if he’s doing for Kṛṣṇa, he must be thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Just like somebody works in business or factory for the wife and children, he always thinks of them. Although he’s working in the factory or business, he’s thinking of the welfare of his wife, children, family. Similarly, if you actually work for Kṛṣṇa, you’ll think of Kṛṣṇa.
Bhūgarbha: How can a person with all material desires develop desire to love Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Material means that you love more Kṛṣṇa, automatically material desires will be finished. Because you do not love Kṛṣṇa cent percent, therefore material desires. The balance is filled up by material desires. Just like in a glass there is some ink. And if you fill up with water, the full glass, the ink will vanish, there will be no more ink. It will all, all white. This is the way. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. To love Kṛṣṇa means you have no more material desire. The percentage you are lacking Kṛṣṇa love, the percentage material desires are there. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. If you love Kṛṣṇa ten percent, then ninety percent material desire. And if you love Kṛṣṇa ninety percent, ten percent material desire. And if you love Kṛṣṇa cent percent there is no material desire. This is the way. So if you love Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, cent percent, simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and offering obeisances, worshiping, then where is the possibility of material desires? There is no possibility.
So the process is very simple, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, and all other things, they will come automatically. Actually Kṛṣṇa is supplying everything. Kṛṣṇa is supplying this grass. The animal will eat. And the animal will supply you milk. You’ll drink the milk. So Kṛṣṇa is supplying. Everything is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa, actually, but because we do not know Kṛṣṇa and do not love Kṛṣṇa, cannot understand. But supply is being made by Kṛṣṇa, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22], even for the nondevotees. So what to speak of the devotee? It automatically comes. This is the way. So the point is there is no difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the result is so big that mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.65]. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. So for such great benefit of life, if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa and become His devotee, why shall I lose this opportunity? What is that intelligence? Therefore unless one is a rascal, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, he cannot give up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Unless he is rascal number one, lowest of the mankind, full of sinful activities, he cannot avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That’s all. This is the position.
Bhagavān: You have given the analogy that when a person turns his back to the sun he creates his shadow. And as he turns towards the sun the shadow disappears.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the motto of our… Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama. Godhead is light, māyā is nescience.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Does someone, does Kṛṣṇa punish people who do not serve Him purely? Or do the people punish themselves when they do not serve Him purely?
Prabhupāda: By nature’s… Nature is acting by Kṛṣṇa’s indication. So nature will punish you. As soon as you violate nature’s law, you’ll be punished, automatically. Suppose if you, you are not hungry, you have no appetite, bit if you by force if you eat, then you’ll increase the disease. Because you have violated. There is no appetite, still you are eating. So you must suffer. If you have infected some disease, so you must suffer from that disease. That nature’s law is working. Kṛṣṇa hasn’t got to take any direct action. Nature, māyā, is there. As soon as you violate the laws of Kṛṣṇa you’ll be punished automatically. You cannot avoid it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Cannot avoid. Therefore those who are trying to overcome the laws of nature, that is the so-called modern scientists’ endeavor. That is foolishness, rascaldom. They cannot do it. It is not possible.
Just like we are here, we are given this planet to live, and there is this moon planet, we can see. And these rascals try to go there so many ways. They refused, “No, you cannot go.” Live there, go. It is practical. We see the moon planet is there, we have got machine, we can go, but you cannot go. This is laws of nature. (laughter) This is laws of nature. This is practically proof. But they are so rascal, fool, they are going to another planet. They do not think with the one planet we have already failed (laughter). They are called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]—chewing the chewed. They are being baffled every step, and still they are trying to overcome the laws of nature. This is their foolishness. Narādhama. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Māyā is so strong upon them that their so-called scientific knowledge is useless. In 1958, when I wrote that book Easy Journey to Other Planets, I write in that book, those who have read it, that this moon planet is simply childish and waste of time. And actually it has proved.
So I was not a scientist, neither I am a scientist. How did I say? I said on the strength of the version in the Vedic literature that it is not possible. You cannot… We are conditioned. We are conditioned to remain in a certain condition, certain atmosphere. We cannot surpass that. Just like we are animals of the land. We cannot go to the water. And the aquatics, fishes, they are animals of the water, they cannot live on the land. Why these rascals are trying to overcome the laws of nature? How foolish rascals they are, just imagine. Any child can understand, but these rascals cannot understand. Their challenge is that “We are trying to overcome the laws.” Is it not? That is their challenge. Therefore they are rascals. Narādhama. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. They are attempting in something which they cannot perform. Therefore they are rascals. Mūḍha. So better, to become more and more mūḍha, better to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām—that will make your live successful. Why should you imitate these rascals? Hmm? What is your saying, what do you think? We say they are rascals, what do you think?
Yogeśvara: They are all rascals.
Prabhupāda: That’s right. (laughter) Anyone protest against this? (laughter) He’ll be another rascal. Don’t try to overcome the laws of nature. That is not possible. You have been given this land, this planet. Live here. Grow your food, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and live peacefully. Why should we go to the moon planet? (laughter) But there is process. If you want to go, there is process. Not this that by force I can go there by machine. That is not possible, that is not possible. That is foolishness. Just like I am Indian. If I want to come to France, I must take visa, I must have the passport and so on, so on. By force, I want to enter, no. So we have got experience that by force we cannot do anything. You must be competent to go anywhere, provided you qualify yourself. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. You can go, but not in that way, that because you have got a tiny machine you can go. That is not possible. That is useless. It is not possible.
Devotee: If someone forces his mind, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to think of Kṛṣṇa…
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. One who is controlled by his mind, that is more foolishness.
Devotee: But if he forces his mind…
Prabhupāda: That’s… Force or not force, one who is controlled by the mind, he’s a rascal. He’s a rascal. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati [SB 5.18.12]. They are driven by the chariot of mind—useless. No intelligence. No benefit. But all these rascal scientists, philosophers, they are going on the chariot of the mind, “I think.” “In my opinion,” This is their… Manorathena, on the mental platform. So they’re all foolish. They have no value. Mental concoction, useless.
Yogeśvara: That means that our attraction for Kṛṣṇa must be spontaneous?
Prabhupāda: It is also spontaneous. You want to love somebody, but the love is misplaced, therefore you are baffled. Replace it to Kṛṣṇa, you’ll be happy. Love is there, that is not a new thing. But you are misplacing the love. That information we are giving, that don’t misplace your love. Place your love to Kṛṣṇa, you’ll be happy.
Devotee: So we can bring the mind under control of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One who is under the control of Kṛṣṇa, he’s no more under control of the mind. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ [SB 9.4.18]. Mind is being controlled. So mind cannot dictate. Those who are not under control of Kṛṣṇa, the mind dictates to him. He’s under the control of the mind, or senses, that’s all. So, point is, that be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don’t disturb yourself by the material environment, or enchantment. Be fixed up, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always fixed up, your mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So far the necessities of life concerned, that will come automatically, you’ll never be in trouble. Go on with this business. Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)