Devotee: Verse number one. “The Blessed Lord said, ‘One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and works as he is obligated, is in the renounced order of life and he is the true mystic. Not he who lights no fire and performs no work [Bg. 6.1].’ Purport. In this chapter the Lord explains that the process of the eightfold yoga system is a means to control the mind and the senses. However, this is very difficult for people in general to perform, especially in this age of Kali. Although the eightfold yoga system is recommended in this chapter, the Lord emphasizes that the process of karma-yoga or acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is better. Everyone acts in this world to maintain his family and their paraphernalia, but no one is working without some self-interest, some personal gratification, be it concentrated or extended. The criterion of perfection is to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and not with a view to enjoy the fruits of work. To act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the duty of every living entity because we are constitutionally parts and parcels of the Supreme. The parts of the body work for the satisfaction of the whole body. The limbs of the body do not act for self-satisfaction but for the satisfaction of the complete whole. Similarly the living entity, acting for the satisfaction of the supreme whole and not for personal satisfaction is the perfect sannyāsī, the perfect yogi.
“The sannyāsīs sometimes artificially think that they have become liberated from all material duties and therefore they cease to perform agni-hotra yajñas, fire sacrifices.”
Prabhupāda: There are some yajñas to be performed by everyone for purification. So a sannyāsī does not require to perform the yajñas. So by stopping that ritualistic performance of yajña, sometimes they think that they are liberated. But actually, unless he comes to the standard platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no question of liberation. Go on.
Devotee: “Actually they are self-interested because their goal is to become one with the impersonal Brahman.”
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is demand. The impersonalists, they have got one demand, that to become one with the supreme impersonal being. But a devotee has no demand. He simply engages himself to serve Kṛṣṇa for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. They do not want anything in return. That is pure devotion. Just like Lord Caitanya said, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye: [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4] “I do not want any wealth, I do not want any number of followers, I do not want any nice wife. Simply let me be engaged in Your service.” That’s all. That is the bhakti-yoga system. When Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, “My dear boy, you have suffered for me so much, so whatever you want, you ask for it.” So he refused. “My dear master, I am not doing mercantile business with you, that I will take some remuneration from you for my service.” This is pure devotion. So yogis or the jñānīs, they are demanding that they should become one with the Supreme. Why one with the Supreme? Because they have got bitter experience by the separation of material pangs. But a devotee has no such thing. The devotee remains, although separate from the Lord, he is fully enjoying in the service of the Lord. Go on.
Devotee: “Such a desire is greater than any material desire. But it is not without self-interest. Similarly the mystic yogi who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self.”
Prabhupāda: Actually the yogis want some material power. That is the perfection of yoga. Not perfection, that is one of the procedures. Just like if you are actually practicing the regulative principles of yoga, then you can get eight kinds of perfection. You can become lighter than the cotton swab. You can become heavier than the stone. You can get anything, whatever you like, immediately. Sometimes you can even create a planet. Such powerful yogis are there. Viśvāmitra yogi, he did it actually. He wanted to get man from palm tree. “Why man should be begotten living ten months within the womb of mother. They’ll be produced just like fruit.” He did it like that. So sometimes yogis are so powerful, they can do. So these are all material powers. Such yogis, they are also vanquished. How long you can remain on this material power? So bhakti-yogīs, they do not want anything such. Go on. Yes.
Devotee: “But a person acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole without self-interest. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction. His criterion is the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. And thus he is the perfect sannyāsī or perfect yogi. Lord Caitanya, the highest perfectional symbol of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, prays in this way: ‘Oh almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor to enjoy beautiful women. Neither do I want any number of followers. What I want only is the causeless mercy of your devotional service in my life, birth after birth.’ ”
Prabhupāda: So a devotee does not want even salvation. Why Lord Caitanya says “birth after birth”? The salvationists, they want to stop, the voidists, they want to stop this material way of life. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, “birth after birth.” That means he is prepared to undergo all kinds of material pangs birth after birth. But what He wants? He simply wants to be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is the perfectional. I think you can stop. Stop here.
Devotee: Prabhupāda? You said that spirit soul is one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair. In the spiritual sky, is the spirit soul still just that big?
Prabhupāda: That is his constitutional position. Either in the spiritual sky or material sky, he’s the same. But as you develop in the material world a material body, similarly in the spiritual world you can develop a spiritual body. You follow? Your position is that small particle, but spirit can expand. This expansion in the material world is being done in contact with matter. And in the spiritual world, that expansion can be done in spirit. Here in the material world I am spirit soul. I am different from this body because this body is matter and I am living. I am living force, but this material body is not living force. And in the spiritual world there is everything living force. There is no dead matter. Therefore the body is also spiritual. Just like water with water, water, that’s all. But water and oil—distinction. Similarly, I am spirit soul, I am the oil. So I am in the water, so there is distinction. But if I am put into the oil, then everything’s all right. So the impersonalists, they do not develop body. They simply remain as spirit particle. That is their idea. But we Vaiṣṇava, we want to serve Kṛṣṇa, therefore we require hands, legs and mouth and tongue, everything. So we are giving such body. As you are getting this body from the womb of the mother, similarly we get body in the spiritual world. Not from the womb of the mother, but there is process to get, you can get.
Devotee: That can’t be done artificially though. Nobody can do like a trick.
Devotee: Yes, no one can develop a spiritual body just by His own whim, “Oh I shall develop spiritual body.”
Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness practice is turning this material body into spiritual body. How it is done? The example I have several times given, that you put the iron in the fire. The more it is warm, it becomes fire. When the iron is red hot—that when the iron has acquired the qualities of fire—you touch the iron anywhere, it will act as fire. Similarly, this body, although it is material—there are so many examples. A metal, electrified, the metal is not electricity. But when it is electrified, you touch the metal, you get electric shock immediately. Just like the electric wire. Copper, it is copper. But as soon as it is electrified, you touch it, you get electric shock. There are so many examples. Similarly, if your body is spiritualized, then the material action is no more. Material action means sense gratification. So the more one becomes spiritualized, the material demands become nil. No more material activities.
So how you can do that? The same example: You have to keep the iron constantly with the fire. You have to keep yourself constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then even your this body, material body, is spiritualized. There is a Sanskrit grammatical law which is called māyātpoktaya (?). Marat(?) means, there is a word, just like svarṇamaya. Svarṇamaya means golden. Golden can be called, when it is made of pure gold, that is also golden. And if it is made of something else but the coating is gold, large quantity of gold, it is also golden. Similarly, when this material body is full with spiritual activities only, this is also spiritual. Therefore saintly persons, of course in your country everyone is put into the grave after passing away, but in India according to Vedic system, only very high personality, devotees, their body is not burned. It is considered spiritual. A sannyāsī’s body is not burned because it is considered spiritual. So how it becomes spiritual? The same example: When the body has no more any material activities, simply spiritual activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that body is spiritual.
So if this world is become full in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody is working for sense gratification, only for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, this world becomes spiritual world immediately. This requires little time to understand. Anything used for Kṛṣṇa, simply for Kṛṣṇa’s satisfaction, it is spiritual. Just like we are using this microphone for talking about Kṛṣṇa, then it is spiritual.
Otherwise what is the difference between this prasādam and ordinary food? We are distributing prasādam, people will say, “Why is prasādam? The same fruit we eat, and you have simply cut into pieces it has become prasādam?” They can say that. How it is prasādam? But it is prasādam. You go on eating this prasādam, you become spiritualized. Actually it is prasādam. Just like the same example, if I take that iron, hot iron, if I say “It is fire.” Somebody may say, “Oh, why it is fire? It is iron.” I say, “Touch it.” You see? These are crude examples, but that is the…
When your activities—actually in higher sense there is no matter. There is no matter, everything is spiritual because Kṛṣṇa is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, and the matter is one of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is also spirit. But because it is being misused, not for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, therefore it is matter. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to spiritualize, respiritualize the whole thing. Whole social position, political position, anything. It is very nice movement. People should try to understand it. And if it will actually spiritualize the whole world—of course that is not possible, but the ideal is like that. But at least if individually one tries this respiritualization method, his life become perfect. Yes?
Devotee: Prabhupāda, it is written in the Bhagavad-gītā that we just read from, about how you think that Kṛṣṇa will provide for us. And also further on in the Gītā it is said that God helps those who help themselves.
Devotee: Now, how do we determine what we should…?
Prabhupāda: Helping yourself means you put yourself under Kṛṣṇa; that is helping yourself. And if you think, “Oh I can protect myself,” then you are not helping yourself. Just like this finger, so long it is healthy, working, if there is some trouble, I can spend thousands of dollars for this. But if this finger is cut off from my body, if you trample down with your feet this finger, I don’t care for it. Similarly, to help oneself means to put oneself in the proper position, as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. That is real helping. Otherwise how you can help? The finger can help itself by putting itself in the proper position of the hand and work for the whole body. That is proper position. If the finger thinks that, “I shall remain separated from this body and help myself,” it will die. So as soon as you think, that “I shall live independently without caring for Kṛṣṇa,” that is my death, and as soon as I engage myself as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that is my life.
So helping oneself means to know one’s position and work in that way. That is helping. Without knowing what is his position, how one can help oneself? It is not possible. Yes?
Devotee: We should always try to act discriminately and always try to serve Kṛṣṇa and not have Kṛṣṇa serve us. Always feel that we should try to serve Kṛṣṇa, and not say that we will do this and Kṛṣṇa will provide, Kṛṣṇa will help us.
Prabhupāda: You are serving Kṛṣṇa, that means you are doing. Serving means doing. What do you mean by serving? Actually when you serve somebody, are you are not doing something. You are engaged in serving Kṛṣṇa how? You are going to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are cooking, you are cleansing, you are so many, doing something. So helping Kṛṣṇa means doing. Helping Kṛṣṇa does not mean you sit down tightly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities. Whatever asset you have got to work, utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Now we have got, what assets we have got. We have got this mind. All right, think of Kṛṣṇa. We have got this hand—wash the temple or cook for Kṛṣṇa. We have got the legs—go to the temple of Kṛṣṇa. We have got this nose—Oh, smell the flowers offered to Kṛṣṇa. So we can engage. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness engage means working, activity. Arjuna, he was declining to act. And Kṛṣṇa was enthusing him to act. This is the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean that no work. To engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to work—for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not say, of course in this chapter Kṛṣṇa will say something about, He never says Arjuna, “My dear friend Arjuna, you don’t care for this war. Sit down and meditate upon Me.” Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gītā? This meditation means to stop all nonsense work, sit down tightly. But those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to work for Kṛṣṇa. Just like child. Simply disturbing. The mother says, “My dear child, sit down here.” But if he can work nicely, “Oh yes,” mother asks, “My dear boy, you have to do this, you have to do that, you have to do that.” Sit down tightly for the nonsense. Not for the sensible. For the nonsense, the more he sits down, at least he does not commit any nonsense, that’s all. Negation of nonsense. That is not positive. Here is positive activities.
So negation is no life. Positive life is life. “Don’t do this,” is no life. “Do this,” this is life. But in order to do rightly, there are some things “don’t.” “Don’t” is not life, “do” is life. The whole Bhagavad-gītā is “do.” “Do fight for Me.” There is nothing “don’t.” Arjuna wanted, “Don’t induce me.” And Kṛṣṇa did not like that. “You are speaking like non-Aryan.” Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam. Anārya-juṣṭam. “This kind of words are spoken by the non-Aryans.” He was accused of being non-Aryan. Anārya. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean sitting idly, no. We have the whole pastimes of Kṛṣṇa is full of activities. When you go to spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is always dancing. You have to twenty-four hours dance there and eat there. Where is sit down? There is no question of sit down. Have you heard anything about gopīs meditating? Sit down. (laughter) Have you heard? Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu? What, dancing, “Hare Kṛṣṇa.” You see? You are spirit soul, how you can stop yourself silent? That is not possible. Arjuna refused. And you’ll find in this chapter when Arjuna was recommended, “My dear Arjuna, you meditate.” He immediately refused. “My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me. It is not possible for me.” That is actual fact. How it is possible for him? He was a householder man, he wanted kingdom, he wanted to rule over the country. Where is the time for his meditation? He flatly refused. “My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me.” He said that controlling the mind: vāyor iva suduṣkaram. “It is as difficult as to control the air.” That is a fact. You have to engage the mind in Kṛṣṇa. Then it is controlled. Otherwise, artificially you cannot control. It is impossible. Arjuna said, what to speak of others. Who is Arjuna? Personally talking with Kṛṣṇa. Do you think he is ordinary man? He said that it is impossible. Vāyor iva suduṣkaram.
This very example he has given. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham [Bg. 6.34]. “My dear Kṛṣṇa, you are asking me to control the mind. It is so powerful, and restless,” I think he is ordinary man? He said that it is impossible. Vāyor iva suduṣkaram. This very example he has given. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham. “My dear Kṛṣṇa, you are asking me to control the mind. It is so powerful, and restless, I think to control the mind is as good as to control the air.” If there is high wind, can you control it? He gives this example. You can control the mind when you fix up the mind in Kṛṣṇa’s lotus feet, that’s all. No nonsense can come within your mind, simply Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of meditation. Activities?
Devotee: What is recreation for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person?
Prabhupāda: Recreation? Dancing. (laughter) Come on, dance with us. Is it not recreation? And when you get tired take prasādam. Do you want more recreation than this? What is your answer. Is it not recreation?
Devotee: Yes. I think it is difficult for someone who comes from…
Prabhupāda: Why difficult? Dancing is difficult? Chant and dance?
Devotee: It’s easier for a devotee who lives in the temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh, but as you come come, anyone can come. Everyone is welcome. We don’t charge anything for this dancing. You go to ball dance and so many other dances, you pay for it. But we don’t charge. We simply, our, these students simply beg something because we have to maintain. We don’t charge anything. So if you simply come and chant for recreation, it is very nice. Everything is there in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We want music, there is music. We want dancing, there is dancing. You can bring nice musical instruments, you can join. We distribute nice palatable dishes. So practically this is a system of recreation only. (laughter) Yes. If you seriously think, you’ll find, this system, there is no labor at all. Simply recreation. Su-sukham [Bg. 9.2]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Ninth Chapter you’ll find, su-sukham . Everything is pleasing and happy. Find out anything in our system, that this is troublesome. Tell me practically, anyone. “This point is very troublesome.” Just put your counterargument. Simply pleasing. It is simply recreation. That’s all. You just point out, “Swamiji, this point is not very recreation or not, that is unhappy position.” Nothing.
People want. That is their natural, just like these children. When they see that boys and girls are dancing, the children also dancing. Automatically. This is spontaneous, this is life. And that is our real life in the spiritual world. There is no anxiety. Simply people are dancing and chanting and eating nicely. That’s all. There is no factory, there is no labor, there is no technical institution. There is no need. These are all artificial. Ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Vedānta says. The, every living entity, God is ānandamaya, full of bliss and pleasure, and we are part and parcel of God, we are also the same quality. Ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt. So our whole process is to join the supreme ānandamaya, Kṛṣṇa, in His dance party. That will make us actually happy. Here we are trying to be happy by artificial means. And we are becoming frustrated. But if you actually be situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simply you revive your original position, joyful, simply joyful. Ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt. These are the Vedānta. Because our nature is ānandamaya. People are, everyone is trying to find out. In this La Cienega Avenue there are so many restaurants, so many things and so many signboards. Why? They are advertising, “Come on, here is ānanda, here is pleasure.” He’s advertising, we are also doing like that. “Here is ānanda.” So everyone is searching after ānanda pleasure. But there is different standard of pleasure. The same thing. Somebody are trying to find out pleasure from the material point of view, somebody’s trying to find pleasure from speculation, philosophy, poetry of art. And somebody’s trying to find out pleasure in the transcendental stage. Everyone is trying to find out pleasure. That is our business only. Why you are working so hard day and night? Because you know, at night, “I shall mix with that girl” or “I shall be mixed with wife, I shall enjoy.” The whole, everyone is accepting all kinds of trouble to find out that pleasure.
Pleasure is the ultimate goal. But you do not know where is the pleasure. that is illusion. Real pleasure is in the transcendental form of Kṛṣṇa. You’ll find Kṛṣṇa always jolly. There’s so many pictures you see. And if we join, you become jolly. There’s so many pictures you see. And if we join, you become jolly, that’s all. Have you seen any picture Kṛṣṇa is working with machine? (laughter) Huge machine? Or have you seen any picture He is smoking? (laughter) By nature, pleasure, you see? Pleasure. So you have to unfold yourself, unfold yourself in that way and you find pleasure. Simply full of pleasure, that’s all. Ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature simply pleasure. Not by artificial means. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. In the Brahma-saṁhitā you find.
tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ
goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa means the taste, the mellow. Just like we try to taste a sweetmeat, a sweet candy, anything. Why? Because there is a very nice taste. So everyone is trying to have some taste from everything. We want to enjoy sex life. There is some taste. So that is called ādi—taste. So there are so many tastes. There in the Brahma-saṁhitā, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. That taste, material taste, you may taste it, but it will be finished immediately. Immediately finished. Say few minutes. Suppose you have got very nice sweetmeat. You taste it. You get, “Oh, it is very nice.” “Take another.” “All right.” “And another?” “No, I don’t want,” finished. You see? So material taste is finishable. It is not unlimited. But real taste is unlimited.
If you taste one then you cannot forget. It will go on, increasing, increasing. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, “This taste is simply increasing.” Although it is ocean-like, great, still it is increasing. Here you have seen ocean. It is limited. Your Pacific Ocean is tossing, but it is not increasing. If it increases there is havoc, you see? But by nature’s law, by God’s order, it does not come beyond its limit. Within the limit it is. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says there is an ocean of bliss, ocean of taste, of transcendental bliss, which is increasing. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. You’ll get by this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, your pleasure potency increasing more and more, more and more. Yes, what is your question?
Devotee: Is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu present in non-living entities, like rocks, matter?
Prabhupāda: Yes, even in the atom.
Devotee: In His four-armed form like…
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Wherever He lives, He lives in His own paraphernalia. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He’s the biggest than the biggest, and He’s smallest than the smallest. That is Viṣṇu. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Paramāṇu means atom. You cannot see even atom, how small. He is within that atom. He’s everywhere.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, you told us that wherever Kṛṣṇa is, that is Vṛndāvana. What I was wondering is, if Kṛṣṇa’s present within our hearts, does that mean that within our heart is…
Prabhupāda: Yes. One who has realized, he is living in Vṛndāvana anywhere. A realized soul is always living in Vṛndāvana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said. One who has realized Kṛṣṇa, then he’s always living in Vṛndāvana. Just like Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is living in everyone’s heart, but He is living in the dog’s heart also. Does it mean that He’s doggish? He’s living in Vaikuṇṭha. Although He’s living in the dog’s heart, but He’s living in Vaikuṇṭha. Similarly a devotee may seem to be living in some place which is far from Vṛndāvana, but he’s living in Vṛndāvana. That’s a fact. Yes. (end)